Local power for NYSW? (was: NJT GP40ph)

From my understanding NYSW still needs more Local Power NJT is selling 3 of their units. I think this would be a good fit for the southern division any opinions.

Not likely... a lot of extra stuff on three tired frames, blocks and sets of trucks. Even if in reasonably good order with updated 645 heads and electronics, still would need re-gearing for freight service.

From the relatively quick transfer of the GP-38's from NS and CSX, I'd expect if there really was a power shortage, it would be made up of additional 38's... makes overhaul and repair, as well as normal inspections and filter replacements pretty straightforward.

No matter how NYS&W goes forward, I'd expect there will be less emphasis on historical value and uniqueness and more on running a regional railroad to survive and make a profit. Previously, you might have seen an acquision of 1-2 for "inspection" service with some value in having HEP... now I would doubt that a shipper's special or political junket would warrant such an acquisition.

But... I could be wrong...

What makes you think a reired, rebuilt passenger loco would be a good fit for NYSW?

More local power is not needed. That is why 1802 is stored as a "ready" serviceable locomotive.

New challenges require a focus on basics.

Stop wasting fuel ($2.95 gallon and rising) through proper fleet/train sizing. Maximize fuel efficiency.

Maximize maintenance dollars through standard makes and models.

Stop purchasing someone else's worn out junk. NYSW has had too much of that take place in the last 25 years and look at the results.

Basics mean moving freight and making a profit for the shareholders.

Not railfan stuff. That has diverted too many resources from the core business.

All of this is true espically about GP 40s fine but why would they lease and pay out more instad of rebuilding the 20's and 18's the same make the maintnece program the same?

The GP18s and 20s are nearing 50 years old.

The GPs borrowed from NS and CSX are much newer and have gone through standardized rebuild programs. Can't say the same for the 18s and 20s.

First because we have no idea what the lease terms are, it's difficult to say what is economical and what isn't.

Basically though, there are now six common platform GP 38-2's with dash 2 electronics "from the factory". Alternatively, you have three GP 18's that have been rebuilt at least three times since the early 1960's by independent repair/rebuilders that squeezed as much current technology as was possible for the upgrades at the time, but the 18's,like the 20's, do not have common air systems, upgraded filters, etc., and to the best of my knowledge, a limitation on the traction motor dimensions that requires a less than state of the art replacement.

Further, you're approaching the point of fatigue for the trucks, the springs, and the frames themselves... as well as just rust and corrosion in the sheet metal.

Suffice it to say "it's time" to retire the units from road service... although there might be a resale or lease opportunity for an industrial switching need.

I am just more interested than anything else on certain decisions. Does anyone know how long the 38's are on lease for?

Good luck! I think you'll be hard-pressed to obtain this information, even if the units were leased from a third-party leasing company. Sort of in a box with terms and conditions of sale... you want to tell everyone here what you make, what your debts are, etc.? About the same deal...

Thanks for all of the information.

"Ascotel" you are asking for information that no sane business would reply to in public. No disrespect meant in the prior sentence.

RichM you are close to having hit the nail on the head. Having said that I will offer the following:

The GP18s were NEVER rebuilt in the true sense of the phrase. One was rewired to a factory print. All three still have 1st generation EMD electrical switch gear which is almost impossible to find anymore. The GP20s were upgraded in the early to mid '70s to 38/40 switch gear and electronics by ATSF. Two of the 1800's have the original 567D1 block that has NEVER been removed from the frame for a heavy overhaul. One has a 645 E running take out block after a rod failure in the original diesel. I know for a fact that from 1982-1988, 1991-1994 that none of these units (other than 1804) had any thing performed to them other than maintenance and failure repair. 1804 had a paint job, wheel sets, rod bearings and a piston/head/liner change out during 1991-92? at Rome Locomotive. None of the three have ever received any performance or technolgy enhancements what so ever. Fact! Not conjecture or supoosition.

The frames on the Gp18/20s are susceptible to the same cracking issues as a GP9. To my knowledge the 1800's have never been stripped or crack checked for this.

More to follow on a future posting about the business related reasons for fleet make up. No private information will be shared.

Question for the board members...

What is the difference between the term overhauled, rebuilt and remanufactured?

These terms apply to cars, locomotives, airplanes, ships and a multitude of other mechanical devices.

Happy New Years!!!!

Whoops!

Should have used spell checker!!!!!!

Kingfish, excellent information... (need a thumbs up avatar)

also why would anyone want to use a full cowled long hood on local service? its like using 3636 to switch cars out all the time. the engineer doesn't have more visibility looking back unless he sticks his head out the window.

Kingfish, you also hit the nail on the head... overhaul, rebuild, remanufacture... terms used in various industries without a consistent definition even within those businesses.

In my world, and that isn't railroads...

Overhaul would be to inspect, replace and repair common wear items exclusive of a block tear-down... gaskets, seals, belts, long service life fluids, cut off switches, sensors... especially those that have been upgraded by the manufacturer, specifically making the original parts obsolete. And finished off with a static or dynamic load test. I guess an analogy would be a 100,000 mile service on gas engine, including a timing belt and water pump change.

A rebuild would tackle the block, specifically rings, valves, bearings, and if so equipped, piston liners, cross-heads ... the parts that see friction wear as well as sulfur and water corrosion. Also throw in the slave items for replacement with other "rebuilds"... alternator / generator, air compressor, etc. And traction motor replacement. But in no way significantly alter the basic components or design criteria.

Remanufacture would include all the above, and a complete block tear-down, and now add the crank, electronics, head upgrades... up to and possibly including block changes, conversion from DC to AC...

I'm assuming running gear, brakes, wheel truing and replacement are covered under normal maintenance cycles. But I also assume that a specific task list is established between an owner and a shop, as the owner may opt for cheapest way possible, and the shop clearly wants to gold-plate everything... so I guess that's how Rome operated, you tell us what you want and we'll do that and nothing more, as opposed to Altoona who has a Chinese menu of packages but will specify a minimum amount of work prior to release.

As it was described to me, when I was doing some research on my 21 year old Dodge truck, was the following

Overhaul - Check and inspect all major (drivetrain) systems, and repair and replace broken/severely worn parts

Rebuild - Rebuild major systems (drivetrain) systems to original manufacturer specs, also checking other systems, and repairing/replacing where necessary.

Remanufacture - Totally rebuild the entire vehicle from the ground up, strip down to basically frame and rebuild all vehicle systems to brand new condition, equalling or exceeding OEM specs.

Now this is what I was told about my 87 Dodge Dakota - while a locomotive is MUCH larger and more complex than a midsize truck, i would guess that the basic categories of restoration/rebuild would be relatively similar.

OH yea, i forgot one other category - a Krylon Overhaul - thats spraying everything with spray paint and making it LOOK new, but not really doing much of anything!!!