Lackawanna Cut-off

Don't we already have a Cut-Off discussion on the NJT Forum? You might want to check out some of that discussion, some good points are made in that argument.

-otto-

On June 20, 2008 while touring the cutoff, we were shocked to see the Johnsonburg station, platforms, and Sheffied Creamery ruins all gone. The whole area is open and flat, covered with the remains of the former buildings. Looks like some covert cleanout is going on, get your photos while you can, who knows what else will be removed.

I asked this question over on the Conrail forum for the segment of time that the line continued to exist between 1976 and 1979, but haven't got anything really great yet...

So...does anyone here have any images available of trains on the cut-off, right before the Conrail era came into play? I'd be looking for images from the late 1960's, or early 1970's before 1976. Really, what I'm looking for is anything that's available from the 20-years or so prior to abandonment of the line.

Any help would be much appreciated.

Mike DiMunno

Survey crews have been working on the cut off for the last month or so. There are survey markers from Port Morris to Andover. The last time I was out there, two different crews were working in that area.

mikedc3 wrote:Survey crews have been working on the cut off for the last month or so. There are survey markers from Port Morris to Andover. The last time I was out there, two different crews were working in that area.

Any possible photos of the survey markers in place? Would love to see the property marked...

Mike DiMunno

No pics, I passed them on my quad.

I first saw survey marks about 6 weeks ago. They are mostly orange paint marks or ribbons. There are paint marks on old ties every few hundred yards and paint marks on trees. Most have numbers painted on them along with a circle of paint.

I saw one crew about 1\2 mile out of Port Morris and the second out in Byram about a mile east of Roseville.

As you all know by now the State of NJ and NJT are going forward with restoring service between Pt. Morris Jct. and Andover. Although this is part of the old "Cutoff" it really isn't part of the total restoration project. NJ and NJT just plainly got tired of monkeying around with the dunderheads running this project and went ahead on their own. This project has serious flaws, all of which were pointed out by the conultants, NJT and the FTA. They were warned numerous times over the years that if they weren't a little more cooperative this project was dead - they weren't - and it is. Larry Malski, Bob Hay and Andy Wallace combined to kill the project. They would not listen to the very people they hired, or the people they expected to fund at least 50% of the project.
This project screamed out to be done in stages, but those 3 continuously pounded the table and invoked the names of powerful politicians as demanding the project go all the way to Scranton AND (don't laugh) a NJT car repair facility be built in Scranton on a piece of land no bigger than a 1/4 acre - and totally inaccessible. Absurd. Every time the fighting started the consultants, NJT and the FTA would smile and fold the tent up. This has been going on for at least 7-10 years like this - crazy.
Then you throw in the fact that both states have highways and bridges that are falling down and you have zero chance. Gov. Rendell never - never - ever - has mentioned this project as a priority or even on his radar.
Stick a fork in it - NJT will do whatever they are doing to extend service in NJ. But, over here in PA, Malski, Hay and Wallace killed it long ago.
Believe me - I know of what I speak. Been there - seen it all.

Kincaid wrote:As you all know by now the State of NJ and NJT are going forward with restoring service between Pt. Morris Jct. and Andover. Although this is part of the old "Cutoff" it really isn't part of the total restoration project. NJ and NJT just plainly got tired of monkeying around with the dunderheads running this project and went ahead on their own. This project has serious flaws, all of which were pointed out by the conultants, NJT and the FTA. They were warned numerous times over the years that if they weren't a little more cooperative this project was dead - they weren't - and it is. Larry Malski, Bob Hay and Andy Wallace combined to kill the project. They would not listen to the very people they hired, or the people they expected to fund at least 50% of the project.
This project screamed out to be done in stages, but those 3 continuously pounded the table and invoked the names of powerful politicians as demanding the project go all the way to Scranton AND (don't laugh) a NJT car repair facility be built in Scranton on a piece of land no bigger than a 1/4 acre - and totally inaccessible. Absurd. Every time the fighting started the consultants, NJT and the FTA would smile and fold the tent up. This has been going on for at least 7-10 years like this - crazy.
Then you throw in the fact that both states have highways and bridges that are falling down and you have zero chance. Gov. Rendell never - never - ever - has mentioned this project as a priority or even on his radar.
Stick a fork in it - NJT will do whatever they are doing to extend service in NJ. But, over here in PA, Malski, Hay and Wallace killed it long ago.
Believe me - I know of what I speak. Been there - seen it all.

Thi is the second posting of these charges and statements so for a second time I am asking for authority and sources for your information and allegations.

henry6 - I am the source. I was a committe member. i attended numerous meetings over the past 4 years - open and closed doors. I was in on conference calls with congressmen and senators. I spoke directly, candidly, to the consultants AND I am very good friends with NJT planning and operating people. We go back a long way. I am the source.

And, they don't even have the most rudimentary, and necessary, document in hand. The FONSI from the FTA. The FTA has told them that until they come forward with an operating/funding plan they will not issue the FONSI. I have a copy of that letter.
See, when they refused to do it in stages the project lacked bang for the buck, so FTA backed off on the 50% New Start money. Threw it into an "exempt" pool and only would talk about funding at the 10-25 million level - not the $250-275 million level. This project, as it is presented, cannot compete successfully for New Start money. So - now if it wants to go all the way to Scranton, as allegedly demanded by Specter and Kanjorski, the states of NJ and PA have to foot the bill. NJ isn't going to foot the bill for a losing proposition in PA, and PA is in no position to throw maybe $300 million into a project just to get it off the ground - never mind operating loss subsidies. Dead in PA.
IF the "planners" (no more names) in PA had been reasonable and backed off on demands that this go all the way to Scranton, and instead allowed it to go forward in stages as recommended by the consultants - this project would have competed successfully, and been underway at this point.
I know of what I speak. And, in fact, I know a lot more.
It's over.

These are serious allegations. I am involved with parts of the project and will now have to take this report to my committee and its members...can you please supply me with personal information on how to contact you if we need to?
(I am not being a smart ass here, I am involved and we do want and have to know more.)

Here's some good news....

http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto. ... ng_007.jpg

Nice job with the historical use of concrete on the 2nd/new bridge !

Note how the recent snow highlights the still in place cross ties and stone ballast down in the ROW.

A new/future railfanning spot has maybe just been born ?

RichNYSME wrote:On June 20, 2008 while touring the cutoff, we were shocked to see the Johnsonburg station, platforms, and Sheffied Creamery ruins all gone. The whole area is open and flat, covered with the remains of the former buildings. Looks like some covert cleanout is going on, get your photos while you can, who knows what else will be removed.

Johnsonburg station was torn down by NJ DOT in mid 2007 due to safety and liablity issues. The station bulding was in poor shape and the State would not risk liability from damages relating to the property (tresspassers, etc.-reportedly someone was injured in the old structure).

http://www.scrantontimes.com/articles/2 ... 0_top4.txt

interesting

No offense to you Sam but these periodic ho-hum press releases got tiresome years ago for me.

At least those quoted have finally ceased giving planned completion dates.

I'm resigned now that my generation will never ride a train to Scranton again.