Lackawanna Cut-off

Even if the Feds give $2 million for 2008, the whole project, including rolling stock, stations, signals, etc, will cost at least several hundred million. The problem is that the project is mostly in NJ but for some reason NJ sees the beneficiaries as being mostly in PA. There appears to be no real NJ constituency pushing for the project. Until such a constituency develops, the project won't get built.

As for why New Jersey citizens, stuck in traffic jams on Rt 80, don't see the benefits of a restored Cutoff--that's certainly a mystery to me.

But there is a lot of infrastructure and monies needed on the PA side of teh project inlcluding property acquisition, stations, parking areas, terminal facilities, and track upgrades, signals, grade crossings plus one wetland area to be taken care of. Not all the work has to be done in NJ nor borne by NJ taxpayers. Big benifets though on traffic, congestion, and enviornmental considerations along I80 and I78 and lesser roads, too, in NJ.

While not familiar with the politics, why not just have NJT build the next section to Andover. See how the traveling public reacts (i.e. - commuters).
Then if that works, on to the next station!! So on and so on. Build it all the way to the Gap. If PA wants to get involved, then maybe they will if they see the RR on the other side of the river, they'll climb aboard!

The project is much further along than that, Irishdawg. PA and Feds have put up lots of money for the service and enviornmental study is done as well as market research. That being said, it is possible that service to and from Andover might be the first implemented because of sequence of geography west from Port Morris.

Wasn't aware that PA was THAT involved. Did see that Feds had opened their pocketbooks. While we may not like it, I guess slow and steady wins the race...tho' it seems that NJT should be doing more to move westward! Would love to get it done so I can travel to Scranton from Western MA by train!

henry6 wrote:The project is much further along than that, Irishdawg. PA and Feds have put up lots of money for the service and enviornmental study is done as well as market research. That being said, it is possible that service to and from Andover might be the first implemented because of sequence of geography west from Port Morris.

Well then that is what NJT should be doing!! Implementing service from Andover FIRST and foremost... I would think something like that would be half or 3/4 the cost of the $550 million dollar price tag.

The fact of the matter is that I havent heard any "real" progress on the Cutoff in several months, so this makes me worry that the project will not be moving ahead to the construction phase anytime soon..

If this rail restoration actually happens, Will the cut off be electrified or diesel?

The cutoff would be diesel. It wouldn't have enough traffic to justify electrification.

Joe, Thanks for your reply.

When EL ran the cut off What was the MAS on this segment of railroad.
Would NJT operate at 80MPH or higher?

Nothing has been determined yet as to what power or equipment will be used for Scranton service. Suffice it to say that the line will not be electrified, at least not at present plans. But that being said, NJT, in conjunction with the MOntreal commuter agency I believe, have asked for dual mode ideas from manufactureres. Such could, or could not, be used in Scranton service. Remember, many who are expected to use Scranton service will not neccessarily be going all the way into NY City but only to North Jersey points; thus the idea of diesel power and trains to Hoboken rather than NYP.

MAS: DL&W engineers were known to hit the century mark on thier speedometers whether E8's or Poconos. Highest general limit I remember was 80 later backed off to 79. Under EL and CR operations, limits were brought down through the 60s into the 30s over the years as maintenance waned.

Henry6,
Thanks again for the with the speed limits,

I guess if the century mark is possible and they can reach it with a diesel then I don't see why not build it to that limit. I know it's a short distance of 100MPH but it will beat any time by car on I80.

It may have not be legal but it's 201X It could be legal on a restored cut off.
I think 80MPH is fine.

Has there been any talk about this project in recent papers in NJ/PA?

Note: I said the century mark was hit by runners, not that it was sanctioned or legal.

Good news? Call me skeptical but I'll believe it when I see it:

believe it when I see it:
Plans move forward to revive Lackawanna Cutoff rail lineby Jim Lockwood/The Star-Ledger Wednesday June 04, 2008, 4:25 PMA long-awaited plan to restore passenger rail service between Hoboken and Scranton, Pa., via the dormant Lackawanna Cutoff in Warren, Sussex and Morris counties took a major step forward today.

The North Jersey Transportation Planning Authority included in its transit plans a 7-mile stretch of the cutoff from Andover Township in Sussex County to Port Morris in Morris County. Officials said trains could be running on this segment of the cutoff within "a few years."

And NJTPA officials say this segment of the defunct rail line, estimated to cost $36.6 million to revive, is eligible for federal funding.

Restoring the dormant 28-mile Lackawanna Cutoff is a key to a $551 million plan to revive the 133-mile passenger rail line between Hoboken and Scranton. A revived line would ultimately link to New York Penn Station by connecting to existing NJ Transit's Montclair-Boonton and Morris & Essex trains.

Last year, a series of hearings were held in New Jersey and Pennsylvania on a draft environmental assessment of the rail plan that showed no major problems, but a cost estimate that had soared from $200 million more than a decade ago to $551 million in 2006. ¶

There are no timetables for construction on the rest of the line, beyond the 7.3 miles identified today.

The goal of the plan is to create a mass transit commuting alternative in fast-growing northwest New Jersey and northeast Pennsylvania. Eight trains would run daily, with stations in Andover and Blairstown in New Jersey, and in Delaware Water Gap, East Stroudsburg, Analomink, Mount Pocono, Tobyhanna and Scranton in Pennsylvania.

Proponents of the long-sought rail plan see it as necessary to remove cars from congested Route 80 in New Jersey.

But opponents say it would only cause further sprawl and increase traffic in Sussex and Warren counties and the neighboring Poconos, and would not remove cars from Route 80. NJ Transit estimates that rails from Scranton to Andover would have 3,350 eastbound daily riders, with most of those boarding at six stations in Pennsylvania, 280 getting on in Blairstown and 150 in Andover.

The Lackawanna Cutoff was built a century ago and abandoned more than two decades ago.

I heard that planners were discussing in New York a proposal to have Scranton service extended to Binghampton, NY.

With Gasoline expected to be $6.00 per Gallon by 2009 and Airlines substantially cutting back service, priority to re-establish service on the cut-off should start ratchetting up.

Howard