Kicking Cars--is it Safe?

CRail, cars seem to go fast in Framingham when the crews kick cars because it is down-hill. Of course I was never shy about giving them a little extra kick towards the Northbound, Southbound or tracks 1, 2 & 3......because they are longer and straighter than the rest of the lead towards track 12.

If they outlawed kicking cars things would never get done where I work. I kick cars so much that it is second nature to me so not being able to do it would be quite an adjustment. The whole mis-aligned drawbar thing is the railroads only quirk. Sometimes you do everything to prevent it from happening but it still occurs. It happens most on Centerbeams. Last week my helper sent a TTPX bulkhead flat (load) into a track at about 4 to 5 mph as it is a bowl like track. The joint to be made was on straight track but some how the coupler went to the left, wrapping the entire "catwalk'' down and arount the truck of a loaded tank car. Luckily it was the A end or the damage would have been worse. The foothold has about 4 inches off the ground. I told the Yardmaster about it and when we were finished with lunch the mechanical foreman called me on the phone in the Switch crew room and asked "what the hell happened over there". I explained the above story and said hey, s#*t happens. And that was all that was said.

We kick 'em 24/7 here in Portland. Some yards are much better than others, straight track being the main concern due to the aformentioned crossed drawbars on the longer cars. I'll add my two cents that this is an interesting move on a remote job, when you're pulling the pins while controlling the movement. Also, there's nothing worse than pulling a big cut of cars and discovering that there is still air on them after you've let a couple go and they just die on you.

SteelWheels21 wrote:Also, there's nothing worse than pulling a big cut of cars and discovering that there is still air on them after you've let a couple go and they just die on you.

Once you get a little experience under your belt, you'll be able to tell if there is air on the cars as they go by you and you can just bleed them off. Oh wait, you'll be an engineer by then.

Here's my 2 cents concerning remote controls: They should be used for tv's, stereos, garage door openers, etc., not Diesel locomotives!!!

One wrong move on your tv, you can get back to the channel you were on, one wrong move with a remote control locomotive could wipe out an entire community!


I still agree that kicking cars increases the number of cars that can switched in yards, and that it is a perfectly good practice.

I've been lucky since I've been marked up, only had to work a few RC jobs. At one point, almost all the yard motors with R/C computers were bad ordered here. It's always nice when the yardmaster tells you to sit tight for the next couple of hours because an engineer has to be called in for your remote job.

Delta...so THAT'S what all those sparks and the funny smell means?...

If you have a way to sniff out every third or fourth car in a cut that has just enough air on it not to slide the wheels when you pull it out but enough to stop a car dead in its tracks halfway out to foul, please fill me in. Seems to always happen on the last switch list before we go home for some reason....

SteelWheels21 wrote:If you have a way to sniff out every third or fourth car in a cut that has just enough air on it not to slide the wheels when you pull it out but enough to stop a car dead in its tracks halfway out to foul, please fill me in.

Assuming you are not a complete drone (and not saying that YOU are, by the way, just making a generalization), eventually your senses will develop and become attuned to even faint sounds of sqeaking brake shoes and clattering brake rigging, the smell of hot brakes, even the heat radiated from a hot brake/wheel, and you'll notice when a cut is more difficult to pull out or get moving than it ought to be. Things that can't be learned from a book, but can only be gained through experience and attentiveness. Switching truly is an art in itself. Some folks are happy to draw stick figures with crayons. Others prefer to develop a more refined talent and create masterpieces.

Assuming you are not a complete drone (and not saying that YOU are, by the way, just making a generalization), eventually your senses will develop and become attuned to even faint sounds of sqeaking brake shoes and clattering brake rigging, the smell of hot brakes, even the heat radiated from a hot brake/wheel, and you'll notice when a cut is more difficult to pull out or get moving than it ought to be. Things that can't be learned from a book, but can only be gained through experience and attentiveness. Switching truly is an art in itself. Some folks are happy to draw stick figures with crayons. Others prefer to develop a more refined talent and create masterpieces.[/quote]

Beautifully put, Delta.

Renoir didn't like being referred to as an "artist" - he preferred to think of himself as a skilled craftsman with a high work ethic. How many others are thusly going about their business - whatever it may be? We're lucky to meet a handful in our lifetimes.

If one considers any activity, nothing is truly safe. "safe" means the absence of risk. There is risk in everything. So like many other activities, what one does is to perform the activity in ways to minimize the risk, thus increasing safety. Kicking cars is no different. Performed properly to minimize the risk should not present a safety hazard.

Ken W2KB wrote:Performed properly to minimize the risk should not present a safety hazard.

So true.

The standards for the levels of acceptable risk vary a lot across different industries. Safety rules are designed in attempt to moderate the risk. The problem comes from what people actually do routinely.

Unfortunately, one can do things in a very unsafe manner, for an extended period of time, and never get injured. People just tend to take shortcuts -- bypassing prescribed safety procedures -- and often are more efficient and successful for doing so.

I call it the safety dilemma. Until railroads learn to deal with this effectively, these jobs will be relatively high up the chart on risk. Not like mining or steel making -- but not as safe as sitting at a desk, either.

I had the opportunity to work with master switchmen who could bat out a switchlist ("kicking cars") in short order with minimal movement, exertion, and risk of injury. Many rules have been instituted in the interim that would make their life-long work practices verboten.

Sorry to dig up an old topic, but at the UP we've been taught to kick cars with someone riding on them. That way once the cars are uncoupled they can step over to the hand brake and control the momentum of the car with it. I did it and I think its a lot of fun.

I forgot about this topic. Its funny I am now back on the job I was on when I posted on this topic almost 2 years ago. Still kickin cars. Did a gravity drop last week with a crummy, wasn't as exiting as a regular drop or a dutch drop.

RailAmerica is a company that has banned kicking cars, on most of it's properties. (it's actually grounds for dismissal, if you get caught doing it) Every single car must be shoved to a hitch. Most G&W properties, if not all, also follow this rule. It does make for a tedious day, working in a yard, designed for flat switching, to shove every car to rest/hitch, but the rule comes from the experience of thousands of bypassed drawbars, over the years, and resulting damage/derailments that usually come with them. I have seen bypassed drawbars in a hump yard, where all cars are cut on straight track, and couple on straight track. The only foolproof way to a hitch, appears to be shoving to a few feet away, stopping and examining the joint, adjust if necessary, then hope it makes. Adding hours to your day, at the cost of productivity. Isn't that what safety is really all about? (that oughta start it, now!! ) Most places have also banned flying switches, or "drops", for similar reasons. (derailments/collisions) On one property I worked, 2 years ago, this rule dropped our 8 hour average, of cars switched, from almost 500 per shift, to just under 200, per shift. And this was with a 4 man crew. (one on switches, one on hitches, one pulling pins) We did, on more than one occasion, bypass drawbars, with a safety stop being made, and a man watching/making the hitch, so I imagine that there's no such thing as fool-proof. Hey LCJ, did you ever work a "field" job. My all time favorite job,on the ground, until they outlawed it. Nothing like a rainy night, at Oak Island, waiting to catch an "east end" ride, between two tracks, loaded with cars. Not for the faint of heart, to be sure! Regards

GN 599 wrote:I forgot about this topic. Its funny I am now back on the job I was on when I posted on this topic almost 2 years ago. Still kickin cars. Did a gravity drop last week with a crummy, wasn't as exiting as a regular drop or a dutch drop.

What in the world is a 'dutch drop"??

Its terminoligy out here for a switching move. I am sure everybody has heard of it but depending on where you railroad it might have a different name. Any way its when you cut away on the fly, get over the switch and get in the clear (the cars will be rolling at you now as direction is changed) line the switch behind for your cut (obviously) when they clear the switch, line out and couple to your train, you will be on the oposite end. There is a local out of Seattle that still does this move. I cant remember which one at the moment. They all still run cabooses I know that. There is a roadswitcher in Bellingham that has an assigned rear brakeman, only full four man crew left on the BNSF in Washington and Oregon. Every thing else is three at the most unless you have a student of some sort.