Is good public transit a civil rights issue?

Is there some sort of correlation between public transit and the police being gentler?

A commuter rail line from a depressed town to a thriving downtown that is 50 miles away helps the town because each white coller worker brings between 40,000 and 200,000 per head of revenue back to the town in which they live. A train that carrys 2,000 people a a day could mean millions of dollers in pay coming home. If you are a hispanic or black in the local service sector that means jobs for you even if only take the train a couple a times a year. New Castle PA and Allentown PA know this from there commuter bus systems. So does Fredrick MD which is a Bedroom Community to Washington DC. Without the Metro and the VRE DC would not be the super city that it is today. NOVAs diverse population of Hispanics/Hindus and a Heinze 57 variety was not even concivible in the 1960s. NOVA was so rural that there were houses with Outdoor Plumbing in Rossilin and Mclean.

gearhead wrote:A commuter rail line from a depressed town to a thriving downtown that is 50 miles away helps the town because each white coller worker brings between 40,000 and 200,000 per head of revenue back to the town in which they live. A train that carrys 2,000 people a a day could mean millions of dollers in pay coming home. If you are a hispanic or black in the local service sector that means jobs for you even if only take the train a couple a times a year. New Castle PA and Allentown PA know this from there commuter bus systems. So does Fredrick MD which is a Bedroom Community to Washington DC. Without the Metro and the VRE DC would not be the super city that it is today. NOVAs diverse population of Hispanics/Hindus and a Heinze 57 variety was not even concivible in the 1960s. NOVA was so rural that there were houses with Outdoor Plumbing in Rossilin and Mclean.

...which has nothing whatsoever to do with the question of whether "good public transit" is a civil rights issue.

Here is a link to Wiki covering the 1964 Civil Rights Act:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1964

Don't see "public transportation" in there...nor should it be, IMO.

asylum1968 wrote:Here is a link to Wiki covering the 1964 Civil Rights Act:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1964

Don't see "public transportation" in there...nor should it be, IMO.

Welcome, asylum1968!

Well what about forced busing for schools in Boston and Cleveland and a dozen other citys? Federal Judges like Bastistie said that was needed because the neiborhoods were segragated. Well in most citys in the rust belt the inner city is Black and Hispanic and the burbs are White. Where the discrimtaion happens is at the (Metropolitian Planning Org) leval were federal money is divied up. Superhighways benifit white consituates and mass transit benfits minorities. When Fed Transportation money is divied up by a politocaly appoited board can you expect to be fair when there is no Blacks on that board?

gearhead wrote:Well what about forced busing for schools in Boston and Cleveland and a dozen other citys? Federal Judges like Bastistie said that was needed because the neiborhoods were segragated. Well in most citys in the rust belt the inner city is Black and Hispanic and the burbs are White. Where the discrimtaion happens is at the (Metropolitian Planning Org) leval were federal money is divied up. Superhighways benifit white consituates and mass transit benfits minorities. When Fed Transportation money is divied up by a politocaly appoited board can you expect to be fair when there is no Blacks on that board?

Gibberish...

Again, were getting a little off track here ( not necessarily "off topic"). The question is whether having "Good" public transportation ( however that is defined) rises to the level of being a "civil" ( read fundamental) right. It does not. This is not to say that access to public transit is not important, or that a right to the same doesn't exist, or that there should not be some element of fairness in the allocation of transit resources, it just is not a "civil" right.

"Diversity" is a catchphrase for the hot button word "Desegregation". Unversitys started using this word when they placed under pressure from the US ED Dep to have affirmative action. Likewise it has been pubic policy for some planners to encourage diversity by investing in public transit so that neighborhoods would be more conducive to diversity. The Zoning Laws of the 1950s -1960s actually created segregated areas where you had to drive to get anything done. (http://www.december.com/places/people/kunstler1993.html ) those who could not drive were SOL.
Where I believe that public transit comes in is when you have a situation where the jobs have left the urban core in old citys and moved to suburban office parks that are not on a bus line. Even if there is a bus line it takes 2 hours to get there. Where I am sitting now in Springfield MA the trip from Downtown Peter Pan Station to UMASS Amherst takes 2 1/2 hours. The bus system is extensive but the grid has not changed since the trolley days when Holyoke and Northhampton and Springfield has there own streetcar systems and then there own Muni Bus Systems. For a Transit Dependent Minority who lives in the Urban Core here to attend UMASS and work a job is impossible. He has to settle for the community college closer to town. New Businesses who used to locate near railroads are now locating near major highway interchanges. I asked a buisness man if he would locate in a renovated mill in downtown Holyoke MA. "No because I need to get to my sales calls and it only takes 5 min to get on a off the freeway where it would take 15 min just to get to the exit from there"
Good Transit that is fast like Light Rail and Bus Rapid Transit (Where it actually works) works two ways. Goverment and Banking Commuters into downtown and Service and Light Industrial workers out of town. The Baltimore Light Rail to Hunt Valley is a good example of this as goes threw through the McCormick Industrail park and ends at Hunt Valley. On street buses are too slow and handicap job seekers.

asylum1968 wrote:Here is a link to Wiki covering the 1964 Civil Rights Act:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1964

Don't see "public transportation" in there...nor should it be, IMO.

In fact it is implicitly covered as part of a broader category. It is illegal to have separate public transportation segregated by race (or sex).

Not what's under discussion here. The general concept of "civil rights" is not narrowly defined by that one law.

gearhead wrote:"Diversity" is a catchphrase for the hot button word "Desegregation". Unversitys started using this word when they placed under pressure from the US ED Dep to have affirmative action. Likewise it has been pubic policy for some planners to encourage diversity by investing in public transit so that neighborhoods would be more conducive to diversity. The Zoning Laws of the 1950s -1960s actually created segregated areas where you had to drive to get anything done. (http://www.december.com/places/people/kunstler1993.html ) those who could not drive were SOL.
Where I believe that public transit comes in is when you have a situation where the jobs have left the urban core in old citys and moved to suburban office parks that are not on a bus line. Even if there is a bus line it takes 2 hours to get there. Where I am sitting now in Springfield MA the trip from Downtown Peter Pan Station to UMASS Amherst takes 2 1/2 hours. The bus system is extensive but the grid has not changed since the trolley days when Holyoke and Northhampton and Springfield has there own streetcar systems and then there own Muni Bus Systems. For a Transit Dependent Minority who lives in the Urban Core here to attend UMASS and work a job is impossible. He has to settle for the community college closer to town. New Businesses who used to locate near railroads are now locating near major highway interchanges. I asked a buisness man if he would locate in a renovated mill in downtown Holyoke MA. "No because I need to get to my sales calls and it only takes 5 min to get on a off the freeway where it would take 15 min just to get to the exit from there"
Good Transit that is fast like Light Rail and Bus Rapid Transit (Where it actually works) works two ways. Goverment and Banking Commuters into downtown and Service and Light Industrial workers out of town. The Baltimore Light Rail to Hunt Valley is a good example of this as goes threw through the McCormick Industrail park and ends at Hunt Valley. On street buses are too slow and handicap job seekers.

...which once again has NOTHING whatsoever with public transit being defined as a "civil rights issue".

What a bizarre thread this is, with all due respect to all participants. No wonder the US Constitution is a charter of "negative liberties", and rightly so; blurring the line between "rights" and "privileges" is a political trick that I advise nobody fall for.

The expansion of quality public transit is one tool that social engineers (urban and metro planners) can use to obtain a social outcome such as desegregation or "diversity". Certainly the impact that Portlands Tri-Met has on the Hispanic Population of Hillsboro is a good example of this in there access to employment.Like it or not rail is a social engineering tool. The Freeways can also be used as tool for segregation. Building miles and miles of strip malls without sidewalks and public transit is also a form of segregation. This was proved 10 years ago when a woman in Buffalo was run over because the mall would not allow city buses in. I believe Johnny Cochran prosecuted the case. see-- http://books.google.com/books?id=gTkDAA ... &q&f=false

Note- I am adding this as possibly being relevant -
http://www.buffalosmartcode.com/news/de ... tem_ID=504

http://www.buffalosmartcode.com/ talks about "Smart Zoning" and how zoning and poor public transit place minorities at a disadvantage