Historical Discussion

Getting back to the P&W Bullets, No. 207, last I heard, still exists. The reason why it rode better than the others is that it had longer wheelbase trucks. There are many unofficial reports that the car was tested at over 100 MPH with the newer trucks, which dramatically reduced hunting and gave a much better ride. It, along with the 203 and 208 is at the Seashore Trolley Museum, but is supposed to be the parts supply for the other two.

Here is the current roster for the Bullets:

200: Scrapped after crash with No. 160 at West Overbrook.
201: Scrapped.
202: Purchased by the Penn's Landing Trolley (BVTA), scrapped after severe vandalism.
203: Seashore (display only, slated for later operation).
204: Body purchased, sans trucks, by Delaware Car Co. in Wilmington, DE. Sold to St. Louis Museum of Transport. Painted blue.
205: Rockhill, operable with trolley poles.
206: Electric City (Scranton)
207: Seashore
208: Seashore
209: PA Trolley Museum (display only, cannot run on 5' 2 1/2" gauge trolley track)

RDG484 wrote:Getting back to the P&W Bullets, No. 207, last I heard, still exists. The reason why it rode better than the others is that it had longer wheelbase trucks. There are many unofficial reports that the car was tested at over 100 MPH with the newer trucks, which dramatically reduced hunting and gave a much better ride. It, along with the 203 and 208 is at the Seashore Trolley Museum, but is supposed to be the parts supply for the other two.

Here is the current roster for the Bullets:

200: Scrapped after crash with No. 160 at West Overbrook.
201: Scrapped.
202: Purchased by the Penn's Landing Trolley (BVTA), scrapped after severe vandalism.
203: Seashore (display only, slated for later operation).
204: Body purchased, sans trucks, by Delaware Car Co. in Wilmington, DE. Sold to St. Louis Museum of Transport. Painted blue.
205: Rockhill, operable with trolley poles.
206: Electric City (Scranton)
207: Seashore
208: Seashore
209: PA Trolley Museum (display only, cannot run on 5' 2 1/2" gauge trolley track)

Seven out of ten surviving is quite impressive.

As for 207, its not listed on Seashore's roster, and I can't recall if I've seen it up there (I'm a member, but really only in financial support, not onsite work). Seashore has a huge backlot of equipment, not all of which is easily viewed. You might try posting in the clubs & museums forum, as there are a number of regular volunteers who post there.

I wrote Seashore and they told me it IS there, but it is to be used for spare parts for their other two Bullets.

Someone in the office mentioned to me today about a subway station somewhere in the depths of the Art Museum.

Anyone have any info on it?

Perhaps they are confusing it with the trolley tunnel that runs under the loop in front of the museum. It has since been converted to an automobile tunnel to connect Spring Garden street to the Spring Garden Street bridge to West Philly. Or perhaps they are thinking of the plan to use the City Subway tunnel formally used by the Reading Railroad for access to to the Reading Terminal. Or perhaps there is a subway station...

I think it's an old B & O route, not a subway station, but an underground ROW, tecnically a subway

There are technically TWO tunnels under the Art Museum: One used to be a trolley tunnel, it is now the Spring Garden St. tunnel for autos. Under that, is the former Reading Art Museum Tunnel. Farther south, at Vine St. is where the Reading interchanged with the B&O. This line is now owned by CSX.

Thanks for the responses, I looked up an old transit map and saw the B&O line running near there. Never knew about the Spring Garden Tunnel. (A former girlfriend calls it the "Princess Di" Tunnel)

Still on the topic of girlfriends and trains, my friend said he dated a girl who used to work at the Art Museum who said there is a station down there that is used now to store works of art.

Is this a case of He said, She Said? Should I take this to the Archeology or Reading Lines group?

I know the Art Museum was built with a subway station in one of the lower levels. Funny how you need to run trains to them for the station to be of some use. I have heard either it's used for storage, or it's a cafeteria, etc. I never claimed to know much about the inside of the Art Museum...I've only been there once or twice, and it was many moons ago.

capuzfu wrote:Does anyone know a place on the internet or a book to read that explains the PRR and RDG combining into Penn Central, and the into Conrails, and finally into Septa. I would also like to read about the other systems such as MTA, MARC, VRE, MBTA, etc.

PRR didn't combine with the RDG, to create the Penn Central- the PC was an ill fated merger of the PRR, New York Central, and the New Haven. It lasted 18 months, then went bankrupt. though the Penn Central Corporation exists today in another form and under another name ( as a real estate firm). When Amtrak was created, and took over most of the nation's passenger rail system ( with the exception of RDG Passenger service, as the RDG declined to "join" Amtrak), it was prohibited from operating commuter service, so the PRR's service ( and later the RDG's service) was taken over by Conrail--- another Federal government creation. Conrail, as a freight carrier, turned out to be much more successful than Amtrak, and was able to be sold in the early 1980's. It was at this time that SEPTA took over the PRR-PC RDG-Conrail commuter services and created its Regional Rail Division. Prior to that take over, SEPTA was simply the Philadelphia area transit operator.

walt wrote:Penn Central Corporation exists today in another form and under another name ( as a real estate firm).

Insurance I thought. And Reading (under its original name) operates movie theatres in Australia.

When Amtrak was created, and took over most of the nation's passenger rail system ( with the exception of RDG Passenger service, as the RDG declined to "join" Amtrak)

Also Southern, Rio Grande, Rock Island, and South Shore (the other four eligible railroads to decline, though two did eventually).

It was at this time that SEPTA took over the PRR-PC RDG-Conrail commuter services and created its Regional Rail Division. Prior to that take over, SEPTA was simply the Philadelphia area transit operator.

Well, SEPTA wasn't operating the rail system, but it was still a public front for the Conrail-operated trains, providing funding subsidies for example as it had for PRR, PC, Reading before it, and as PSIC had done before SEPTA. I've seen pre-1983 rail schedules. They have SEPTA logos on them.

-asg

I've seen pre-1983 rail schedules. They have SEPTA logos on them.

Same with NJT.

Conrail wasn't sold off until the late 90's. They merely shed communter operations in 1983 and turned them over to the respective state agencies. States that did not pick up the tab on services lost them completely.

In 1986 Conrail went public. In 1998 the company was sold to CSX and NS.

Imagine what kind of system we might have today if Conrail had been forced to continue commuter operations and fold Amtrak in as well.

Penn Central is part of the American Financial Group, insurance is the primary business.

RDG484 wrote:I wrote Seashore and they told me it IS there, but it is to be used for spare parts for their other two Bullets.

Dredging up a really old discussion, I just saw this photo online today:

Bullet 207 at Seashore, June 2007

chuchubob wrote:I rode the Reading's Welcome to the Silverliner IV trip on November 3, 1974. Here's a photo at Warminster:

http://community.webshots.com/photo/285 ... 0474WPygnF

Bob

I remember very well when the Silverliner iv (GE Cars) first came about the scene. I was about eight years old, and being with my Dad at the time who was a Reading Conductor and Brakeman, being in awe when he allowed us to call out station stiop on the P.A system. At that time, all the Conductor need to do was put in a key, mounted in the wall on the left side in the middle of the car, turn it and speak in the mouthpiece in the middle of the car, the single cars, had a phone reciever like, guys would put the key into the switch that controled the vestuble doors and call out station stops through the reciever. With two or more cars in a consist, they would just squeeze the wire through the open door that allowed passage from one car to another. If you had a mixed consist, , with Budd Silverliners, no one bothered using the P.A. system

octr202 wrote:

RDG484 wrote:I wrote Seashore and they told me it IS there, but it is to be used for spare parts for their other two Bullets.

Dredging up a really old discussion, I just saw this photo online today:

Bullet 207 at Seashore, June 2007

The roof looks pretty bad but the body looks to be in pretty good shape. When were these retired?