Hampton Roads/Norfolk/Newport News NE Regional Service

There's also HOB and NYG, major commuter hubs which provide easy transfers to Amtrak at places like NWK, STM, and POU.

It'd make sense for the greater Newport/Norfolk/VA Beach/Suffolk region to have a comprehensive transit system that includes at least one Amtrak facility as a hub. That would be much more effective at helping people access all the towns from one point, whether it's an airport, a train station, or the harbor. I'll talk to my senators if you do the same with yours!

mtuandrew wrote:There's also HOB and NYG, major commuter hubs which provide easy transfers to Amtrak at places like NWK, STM, and POU.

It'd make sense for the greater Newport/Norfolk/VA Beach/Suffolk region to have a comprehensive transit system that includes at least one Amtrak facility as a hub. That would be much more effective at helping people access all the towns from one point, whether it's an airport, a train station, or the harbor. I'll talk to my senators if you do the same with yours!

I'll agree that it would be better for the Tidewater area to have one major transit hub with one regional rail transit system. But that one regional rail transit system is a pipe dream from la-la-la land. Virginia Beach voters during the last two referendums declined to build a light rail extension into their city, and that was easy to build because they didn't have to pay to tunnel under Hampton Roads. If they can't afford to extend a rail line a few miles at grade, what makes you think they will ever be able to afford building a rail tunnel under Hampton Roads to make the one regional rail transit system a reality?

With just a little bit of study, you'll discover that almost all of the Tidewater's major employment destinations lie adjacent to bodies of water. A high speed passenger ferry system could easily connect them all together. But the residential areas aren't adjacent to bodies of water as much, so some land base mode of transport will be needed for commuters.

The Tidewater area needs to focus on a multimodal transit system that includes ferries for traffic crossing Hampton Roads instead of building rail tunnels under it. It's time take the attitude to make the "Roads" an asset instead of an obstacle.

electricron wrote:

mtuandrew wrote:There's also HOB and NYG, major commuter hubs which provide easy transfers to Amtrak at places like NWK, STM, and POU.

It'd make sense for the greater Newport/Norfolk/VA Beach/Suffolk region to have a comprehensive transit system that includes at least one Amtrak facility as a hub. That would be much more effective at helping people access all the towns from one point, whether it's an airport, a train station, or the harbor. I'll talk to my senators if you do the same with yours!

I'll agree that it would be better for the Tidewater area to have one major transit hub with one regional rail transit system. But that one regional rail transit system is a pipe dream from la-la-la land. Virginia Beach voters during the last two referendums declined to build a light rail extension into their city, and that was easy to build because they didn't have to pay to tunnel under Hampton Roads. If they can't afford to extend a rail line a few miles at grade, what makes you think they will ever be able to afford building a rail tunnel under Hampton Roads to make the one regional rail transit system a reality?

With just a little bit of study, you'll discover that almost all of the Tidewater's major employment destinations lie adjacent to bodies of water. A high speed passenger ferry system could easily connect them all together. But the residential areas aren't adjacent to bodies of water as much, so some land base mode of transport will be needed for commuters.

The Tidewater area needs to focus on a multimodal transit system that includes ferries for traffic crossing Hampton Roads instead of building rail tunnels under it. It's time take the attitude to make the "Roads" an asset instead of an obstacle.

I'm surprised no one has said "let's do a gondola study" yet for getting across the water.

SemperFidelis wrote:In technical terms New York City has three, though I would count only two. NY Penn, Newark, and Metropark all lie within the NY metro area, but I think it is more fair to only count Newark and NY Penn, which are connected to one another by Amtrak, NJ Transit, and PATH. Metropark is a super pain in the butt to get to.

Well if you're being technical, the NYC Metro has more like 10- Metropark, Newark Airport, Newark Penn, NY Penn, New Rochelle, Yonkers, Stamford, Croton-Harmon, Poughkeepsie and Bridgeport.

If you define the NYC Metro as the Combined Statistical Area, then you can add Trenton, New Haven, Meriden, and Wallingford...

I was only counting what I knew to be Amtrak stations. I might have missed one or two.

Ron and scratchy: Hampton Roads Transit already operates ferry service from Norfolk to Portsmouth using conventional ships. I don't see why it couldn't also operate from Hampton and Newport News to Norfolk via fast conventional ship or hydrofoil. (I think this is applicable to Amtrak because both NPN and NFK are a few blocks' walk each from a pier that could host ferry service, and that such a service would be a great help to local transit.)

Tadman wrote:I'm finishing up a trip WAS-NPN and back. I notice there are 2x each way to NPN and 1x to Norfolk. I can't seem to make sense of this. It's the same metro area. Now you have two terminals to maintain, staff, and clean. You have two train storage areas. And you have a run time 35 minutes longer to Norfolk. Given that they run connecting busses to Norfolk for every NPN train, why bother with the Norfolk train?

The bridge tunnel splits the area. When there is 0 traffic at midnight on a weeknight (on a weekend? forget it) its a 40 minuet drive to an hour drive from Downtown Norfolk and the train station to Newport News and the train station, because you can't speed in the Newport News portion, and if you try the HBRT approach you have to cross all of Norfolk and lights, so if you do the train station to 264 to MLK to the MMBRT it still means you have to pray the bridge tunnels don't crash.


I lived here for my navy life and I just moved out.

The issue with ferries is A: no room. The Portsmouth ferry works because it goes from near the Portsmouth (the nice part of Portsmouth) houses to Downtown Waterfront, which is a quick jaunt. Newport News is VERY long and the parts where people live (the midtown/ City Center (ironically not in the center of Newport News) are far away from waterways, and you would have to somehow not make a wake and disturb the Naval Shipyard and the light haulers/destroyers going UP to the weapons depot. Thanks to anti terror, you can't put a bay by the Norfolk base so you would have to go ALL the way inland to by the cruise ship pier which would mean you need to get to Norfolk Naval Base or the other major employment centers somehow.

Tadman: we discussed cross-Hampton Roads service in the existing HR, NPN, NFK thread (link is to my post in October) viewtopic.php?f=46&t=87491&start=540#p1403386" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Maybe worth a thread merge?

Me. Smith: I'd forgotten the Homeland Security aspect. That would make any waterborne service difficult at best, aside from the current one.

Feds propose moving [Petersburg] Amtrak station out of Ettrick [to Colonial Heights] (article has good pictures, too)

Site is: https://goo.gl/maps/7NLcThrPnx32" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
2600 Boulevard
Colonial Heights VA
(just north of Petersburg proper)

Article says

The Boulevard location – the former S.E. Nichols store site on the west side of the Boulevard just south of the railroad underpass and across from Newcastle Drive – “is the most accessible and visible under consideration, as it is located approximately one mile (1.1 miles) from I-95 on a major arterial [highway] that provides convenient access to population centers in the region,” according to the report

Requoting the FRA's additional reasoning:

• “The site is less than a three minute travel time to I-95. Access to interstates is a key consideration for Amtrak and inter-regional train service patronage, including potential feeder bus service, such as Amtrak’s Thruway connection service.”

• “The Boulevard site is close to the existing population/activity centers, including Fort Lee, [Virginia State University], downtown Petersburg and downtown Colonial Heights.”

• “Existing transit routes provide access to the site along [the] Boulevard (U.S. 1).”

• “The station could utilize existing parking that is directly accessible from [the] Boulevard ... requiring no new access routes or improvement to routes that provide access to the station.”

• “The Boulevard Build Alternative is the station site with the highest WalkScore, a widely used measure of walkability in the station area that looks at the presence of sidewalks, land use and the overall pedestrian environment and measures how amenable it is to walking. The site is located within a ‘somewhat walkable’ environment – the only station site to receive that category of rating.”

• “The Boulevard Build Alternative has been endorsed by the locality, the city of Colonial Heights.

• “No environmental constraints exist that would preclude implementation of the station in this location.”

Arlington wrote:Feds propose moving [Petersburg] Amtrak station out of Ettrick [to Colonial Heights] (article has good pictures, too)

... the FRA's reasoning:

• “The site is less than a three minute travel time to I-95. Access to interstates is a key consideration for Amtrak ...

• “The Boulevard site is close to the existing population/activity centers, including Fort Lee, [Virginia State University], downtown Petersburg and downtown Colonial Heights.”

But VSU officials seem to think the proposed location is not as convenient for their students, faculty, staff, or visitors.

Virginia State University officials have been strongly supporting keeping the local railroad station in Ettrick. Both the county and the university see it as a key resource in ongoing plans to expand the college and revitalize the community. Previous consultant reports have stressed the likely positive economic impact a new station will have on the surrounding community.

VSU, Virginia State University, is an HBCU, a Historically Black College University.

It will be considered provocative of me to note that Virginia State University and the current station are in the community of Ettrick, which is 75% black. Ettrick adjoins Petersburg, a city 79% African American. Colonial Heights, nearby, is a lighter shade of pale, 89% white.

Such as it ever was?

I think the walk score, transit, and I-95 access are clinchers (for new site), regardless of race.

Did Ettrick have a TOD plan?

Yes, yes, let's move the station away from a major university to a place between two strip malls. That's gonna work out great.

The EGE wrote:Yes, yes, let's move the station away from a major university to a place between two strip malls. That's gonna work out great.

In Lynchburg, it is 5 miles from Liberty University to the Amtrak Station, and that's worked OK, hasn't it?
In Petersburg, it is 2.5 miles from Virginia State U to the 2600 Boulevard site.

It is impossible to imagine a new site closer to VSU than the current site, so any sincere effort to situate a new station is going to consider things farther from VSU.
The station in PTB has been basically across the street from VSU and we have not seen it develop as a transit hub or get TOD.

The proposed new site is easier to access by everybody, towns to the north, east, south, and west. There's 4 lanes or more highways in every direction. The existing site is access by two lane streets from every direction. The only thing great about the existing station is that it is within walking distance from the university. Two and a half miles away from the university is the distance to the new proposed station location, maybe too far to walk but definitely not too far to ride a bike or bus.