Granville: The rail disaster that changed Australia

Almost looks like scenes you would expect from a country such as India, rather than Australia.
I seem to be appreciating more and more how seemingly over the top health and safety regulations are necessary in situations such as these. Today, one of the first priorities would be to seal the scene of from the public, and brief the rescuers on who is doing what. And of course how necessary trauma counselling may be for everyone involved afterwards.

Yes, agreed. Although by a nature a bit of an anarchist, my experience on the railways has given me an appreciation of the necessity of rules, systems and an almost military-style chain of command in certain circumstances.

johnthefireman wrote:Granville: The rail disaster that changed Australia

That's a very busy line. I travelled on it several times when I was in Australia. One of the things I remember about the trains was that the doors were often kept open even when the train was moving fast.

Possibly they have more modern carriages now. I hope so as it really isn't safe to allow a crowded carriage to be in danger of throwing people out.

A bit more on Granville https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFGKs62Wz5Y" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

philipmartin wrote:A bit more on Granville https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFGKs62Wz5Y" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The train in the film seems older than the ones I saw, which were mostly double deck and a bit more modern.

Yes , George , i was surprised these carriages were still in use in the mid 70's. When were you there? I thought the double deckers were well in use by the time of my first visit in the early 80's. Though I do recall been surprised at the age of some rolling stock.

When I first saw this rolling stock I thought they were Pennsylvania Railroad cars because of the Tuscan red with gold stripe paint scheme.

David Benton wrote:Yes , George , i was surprised these carriages were still in use in the mid 70's. When were you there? I thought the double deckers were well in use by the time of my first visit in the early 80's. Though I do recall being surprised at the age of some rolling stock.

I can't remember the date but it was in the 1980s, which means that the trains I saw were probably quite new. But I was surprised that the doors were not controlled as London Underground doors are - automatic closure by the driver or the guard. Indeed I am sure that running with open doors in Britain would be a serious offence. I am not sure whether the trains in Sydney had air conditioning but I hope so. I was there in the Autumn - March.

george matthews wrote:I am sure that running with open doors in Britain would be a serious offence

I'm sure it would be nowadays. But I travelled to school every day from 1966-1972 on the suburban EMUs on the Liverpool Street line. There were two types of EMU in use. The inner suburban ones had air-operated sliding doors controlled by the guard. However the outer suburban ones were non-corridor compartment stock with slamming doors and no central locking. We used to take great delight in opening them at speed. Depending on which direction the hinges were, you either had to put all your weight on it to open it against the air pressure, or else it was torn out of your hands and slammed back against the side of the train. Very dangerous, but fun for young grammar school boys. I'm not sure when those trains were withdrawn, but it can't have been that long before the Granville disaster.

Also, BR Mk 1 and Mk 2 coaches (and maybe later marks?) didn't have centrally-locked doors. You have to open the window and lean out to open the door using the exterior handle, and this could be done while the train was moving at speed. HSTs were only retrofitted with centrally-locked doorsin the last few years, if I recall correctly.

In South Africa you still regularly see suburban EMUs running with the sliding doors open and people hanging out of the doors.

johnthefireman wrote:

george matthews wrote:I am sure that running with open doors in Britain would be a serious offence

I'm sure it would be nowadays. But I travelled to school every day from 1966-1972 on the suburban EMUs on the Liverpool Street line. There were two types of EMU in use. The inner suburban ones had air-operated sliding doors controlled by the guard. However the outer suburban ones were non-corridor compartment stock with slamming doors and no central locking. We used to take great delight in opening them at speed. Depending on which direction the hinges were, you either had to put all your weight on it to open it against the air pressure, or else it was torn out of your hands and slammed back against the side of the train. Very dangerous, but fun for young grammar school boys. I'm not sure when those trains were withdrawn, but it can't have been that long before the Granville disaster.

Also, BR Mk 1 and Mk 2 coaches (and maybe later marks?) didn't have centrally-locked doors. You have to open the window and lean out to open the door using the exterior handle, and this could be done while the train was moving at speed. HSTs were only retrofitted with centrally-locked doorsin the last few years, if I recall correctly.

In South Africa you still regularly see suburban EMUs running with the sliding doors open and people hanging out of the doors.

The Southend trains were replaced when the voltage changed. That line was an early conversion to electrification and used a voltage that was later abandoned for the now standard of 64 kvac. The slam door trains were scrapped.

I think all the non-standard electrifications have been either converted or dismantled.

I suspect that our inner suburban sliding door trains were BR Class 306 and the outer suburban trains with slam doors were Class 307, although I'm not 100% certain.

Class 306

Class 307

johnthefireman wrote:
Also, BR Mk 1 and Mk 2 coaches (and maybe later marks?) didn't have centrally-locked doors. You have to open the window and lean out to open the door using the exterior handle, and this could be done while the train was moving at speed.

I remember noticing that when I rode them. Was that done to avoid having any sort of door handle protruding inward, with the possibility of causing injury? The inside surface of the door was completely flat.

Slam door train. Well, I never!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=q7GZmlk-DmA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

philipmartin wrote:Slam door train. Well, I never!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=q7GZmlk-DmA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I think all those carriages have been phased out. Slam door trains are quite old now. It's possible they are not even permitted on regular trains now. A few can be found on preserved lines, but none at all on the main lines.

The picture shows a train some years ago, before "privatisation". I suspect it is on the east side of London, possibly on the Southend line. One can see the overhead electric above it. Also I recognise that sort of train from occasional visits to Southend.

Back to Australia. I am not sure what the cause of that serious crash was. Maybe the condition of the track? In which case it suggests a need for more frequent inspections. But as the trains were old it might have been a failure of some part of the carriage, such as wheels.