GL Stop Consolidation & Ext to Hyde Sq Study

The Boston Region MPO to study Green Line surface stop consolidation (B, C, D, E) and a potential E line extension to Hyde Square.

MassDOT is currently studying stop reconfiguration concepts, accessibility enhancements, and corridor alternatives along the surface subsections of the Green Line branches. CTPS has been requested to assist MassDOT and its study team with this work. With the completion of this study, the MBTA will be well-positioned to implement a strategic improvement and action plan along the Green Line corridor.

Objective(s)
The objectives of this work program are to support MassDOT and its project team by the following means:
1. Collecting data about current Green Line use, service levels, and competing modes
2. Assisting in the development of transit service planning scenarios, including a potential extension of the E Line branch to Hyde Square
3. Assisting in the analysis of Green Line surface station consolidation scenarios
4. Using the Boston Region travel demand model set to assess the existing Green Line conditions, and to analyze various transit improvement scenarios for the two different horizon years, 2030 and 2040

https://www.ctps.org/data/calendar/pdfs ... mation.pdf

Just guessing that the Hyde Square extension might be the sacrificial entrant that appears in so many multi-prong proposals. Rehabbing the ROW and power distribution will be more than disruptive and expensive enough, and that left turn off South Huntington onto Perkins would be wheelsquealpalooza. Yes, they could cut across the Angell Memorial parking lot and build tiered parking to make up for the lost spaces, but to borrow from the Wayans brothers: more money, more money, and more money.

I really don't know what to think about GL to Hyde Square. On the one hand, So. Huntington is pretty wide, so a street-running trolley is not much disruption; there are no stores and therefore no double-parked delivery trucks and whatnot. And by adding that extra 3/4 or so of track they would bring rail transit into easy walking distance of a lot more people. On the other hand, it would be street-running, subject to traffic delays, awkward to board at intermediate stops. It would make it more difficult to get to the VA from the outbound cars than it is now, with the protected stop at the Heath Street Loop. An even greater length of the #39 bus would be parallel to the trolley, which would logically either mean fewer #39s or #39s only as far as a transfer at Hyde Square, neither of which would be good for the folks further out.

I say good luck to them, but I don't think this idea has a snowball's chance in the hot place. I'm frankly amazed that Brigham Circle to Heath Street still remains - they certainly don't hesitate to suspend it whenever someone so much as loses a hubcap south of Fenwood Road. The City of Boston and the MBTA have for decades been at best lukewarm to the concept of street running light rail, and at worst openly hostile as Boston was toward Arborway. I don't see that changing. If it were not so, we would have light rail to Arborway, Watertown, and probably Nubian Square today.

A dedicated median from Brigham Circle to Riverway would help enormously.

A median between Brigham Circle and South Huntington would pretty much mean no curbside parking and no bike lane, which would pretty much mean the order of probability would be 4 or mebbe 5 places to the right of the decimal point, 1 or mebbe 2 places to the right of where it already is for an extension to Hyde Square.

Heavy opposition on Galen St., the last stretch to the end of the line, doomed revival of the line. Just running to Oak Square was deemed inefficient compared to just letting buses complete the entire route.

I think you may be thinking about the A line/Watertown end of the GL.

Yes, it was a reply to

jwhite07 wrote:...The City of Boston and the MBTA have for decades been at best lukewarm to the concept of street running light rail, and at worst openly hostile as Boston was toward Arborway. I don't see that changing. If it were not so, we would have light rail to Arborway, Watertown, and probably Nubian Square today.

Forgot to indicate which line previously.

typesix wrote: ↑Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:10 pm Heavy opposition on Galen St., the last stretch to the end of the line, doomed revival of the line. Just running to Oak Square was deemed inefficient compared to just letting buses complete the entire route.

I think most of the opposition on Galen St was due to the extensive potholes during the last TWENTY+ YEARS of deferred road maintenance before the rails were pulled up. Watertown "A" service would have been far superior to the 57 bus which was soooo sloooow.

I remember the debates on whether or not to restore service to Arborway/Forest Hills and that it was a legal obligation to restore the Green Line branch as part of the central Artery air quality mitigation plan. The MBTA, for whatever reason, weaseled out of their obligation so that JP residents have to settle for the 39 bus in order for another neighborhood to receive the benefits. Also never mind that other cities have no issue with street running trolleys, but that's a discussion for another forum. Having said that, there has been a large number of people who support the reextention of the Green Line to Hyde Square. Also, the Boeing trolleys had "A Watertown" printed on the destination signs as there was some kind of anticipation of restoring service to Watertown on the then-existing trackage.Also during the debate over trolleys vs buses to Nubian/Dudley Square, an article in the Boston globe had mentioned that there was a suggestion that a hybrid bus-rail vehicle could be designed for such a scenario, if I recall correctly. I wonder if a "hi trailer" type of vehicle could be designed for the Silver Line. I know I have mentioned this before but such a vehicle could be used, in effect, to restore service to Arborway on the Green Line and even to restore, in effect, the A Watertown branch of the Green Line. Running as a trolley on the existing rail routes and as a bus on the former Green Line routes. I know it's not as simple as it sounds but maybe it's an idea that could be exploredl. :-

atlantis wrote: ↑Thu Oct 29, 2020 10:56 pmthe Boeing trolleys had "A Watertown" printed on the destination signs as there was some kind of anticipation of restoring service to Watertown on the then-existing trackage.

The Watertown "A" line (also included a loop at Oak Square, presumably some trolleys turned there) was "temporarily discontinued" in 1968 due to a shortage" of PCC cars. The Boeing-Virtol LRVs came out in the mid-1970s, the rails were not lifted until the mid 1980s??, which also made the Watertown Car Barn unusable, so they had to spend millions elsewhere and they scrapped PCC cars which would be nice to have today.

Also during the debate over trolleys vs buses to Nubian/Dudley Square, an article in the Boston globe had mentioned that there was a suggestion that a hybrid bus-rail vehicle could be designed for such a scenario, if I recall correctly. I wonder if a "hi trailer" type of vehicle could be designed for the Silver Line. I know I have mentioned this before but such a vehicle could be used, in effect, to restore service to Arborway on the Green Line and even to restore, in effect, the A Watertown branch of the Green Line. Running as a trolley on the existing rail routes and as a bus on the former Green Line routes. I know it's not as simple as it sounds but maybe it's an idea that could be exploredl. :-

The unfortunately-named Dual-Mode Vehicle was tried out by JR Hokkaido in the 2000s but abandoned, then crickets, look like someone else is going to try. I think similar types of vehicles existed in UK up to the 1930s?. https://translate.google.com/translate? ... ch&pto=auehttps://faculty.washington.edu/jbs/itra ... almode.htm There was an english language wikipedia article but I think all the info about the japanese dmv has been edited away. There also appears to be a "railrunner" concept that seems like vaporware.

These DMVs or for more accuracy let's coin the phrase Hi-Rail Trolleys, would be excellent to restore Park to Watertown & Oak Square, restore Arborway, establish new service Ashmont-Mattapan-Forest Hills. Streetcars apparently fanned out from Lechmere, that would have been great but they just tore that down, maybe there are other connection points on the GLX...

Oh, forgot, you could have "F" Tremont-Nubian service.

Public Service Transport (PSEG) used "all service vehicles" (ASVs) in Newark, running on the rails in the subway
and as surface buses on the road in outlying suburbs after the trolley routes were converted to bus.

Which comes up to the fact that they would be both a rail car and a motor vehicle, with the latter meaning that
they wold subject to DMV inspections and certifications. Even SEPTA's rail fleet (subway and trolley cars) are
inspected by PennDOT DMV.