Railroad Forums 

  • Germantown Avenue Work

  • Discussion relating to Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority (Philadelphia Metro Area). Official web site can be found here: www.septa.com. Also including discussion related to the PATCO Speedline rapid transit operated by Delaware River Port Authority. Official web site can be found here: http://www.ridepatco.org/.
Discussion relating to Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority (Philadelphia Metro Area). Official web site can be found here: www.septa.com. Also including discussion related to the PATCO Speedline rapid transit operated by Delaware River Port Authority. Official web site can be found here: http://www.ridepatco.org/.

Moderator: AlexC

 #65951  by PARailWiz
 
The other night on the news there was a story about part of Germantown Ave being rebuilt. Unfortunately I missed the first part of the story, so I don't know specifically where they were talking about, but I heard them say the trolley tracks would be rebuilt as a part of this project. Does anyone know more about this, or if there might be plans (not necessarily on SEPTA's part) to restore trolley service when they're done? Thanks.
-JZ

 #66071  by jfrey40535
 
What happened to the PCC's that used to be used on the Chestnut Hill Trolley?

I heard a rumor that all the old PCC's, including the derilicts at Midvale were being sold to Brookville for parts for their other "PCC Customers"

 #66110  by jfrey40535
 
Most of those look like PCC-II's. I'm referring to the unmodified originals. About 12 un-usable shells are parked at Midvale, all in the '80's SEPTA livery. There were a few cream colored, and original PTC green cars floating around, I don't know where they went.

Is anything left at Germantown Depot?

SEPTA still has the signs up at the loop for the CH Trolley which used to run weekends. Charged same fare as buses. Guess not enough people rode it. I suppose it would still be a loss even if it was full as SEPTA does not have a single route that operates in the black.

Is no one in CHestnut Hill concerned that the 23 could suffer the fate of the 56?

 #66204  by chuchubob
 
jfrey40535 wrote:Most of those look like PCC-II's. I'm referring to the unmodified originals.
Granted I'm astigmatically myopic, but I see 2 PCC-II's and 4 or 6 PCC's.

 #66487  by SEPTALRV9072
 
My count is 3 PCCs and 3 PCC-IIs.

 #66499  by Umblehoon
 
Ok, so there are a combination of PCC's and PCC II's there. Anyone know what's going on with Germantown Avenue?
 #67618  by jsc
 
PENNDOT is re-building the avenue (not sure how far south) and replacing the tracks in some sort of concrete that is supposed to be textured like the cobblestones that are on the sides of the road. The trolley tracks are going to be retained.

Actually, this is a nice deal for SEPTA because, if I read this right, they get new tracks laid at no cost to them.

Germantown ave is in terrible shape, especially south of Wayne Junction. I hope the rebuild goes at least that far south.

 #67626  by jfrey40535
 
Good News! Strike one for the trolleys...if only we had cars.
 #67736  by Umblehoon
 
jsc wrote:PENNDOT is re-building the avenue (not sure how far south) ... south of Wayne Junction. I hope the rebuild goes at least that far south.
Where is the work starting? The city line?

Incidentally, you said that they'll be using concrete with cobblestone-like texture? Are you serious? Sounds like a great idea -- let's get the rough ride of the cobblestones (their downside) WITHOUT their great look (their upside). What a dumb idea.


Edited in shortly after posting:
There's a page that describes what locations will be refurbished on PennDot's website. Read all about it here: http://www.dot.state.pa.us/Penndot/Dist ... enDocument

 #67809  by jsc
 
regrettably, I don't know the answers to your questions. as for the texture of the pavers, they are supposed to look very much like the cobblestones but without the dis-advantage of the stones loosening during the frost and coming out creating huge potholes. Cobblestones (or more properly Belgan Building Blocks) can be very smooth when properly maintained. Heavy trucks also help dislodge the stones on Germantown Ave. Really, it seems like a good, innovative solution; the community likes the look of the building blocks but the city cannot afford to pay to keep them in pristine shape all the time. This may be a good balance. Give it a chance.

-jsc

 #67820  by Umblehoon
 
jsc wrote:regrettably, I don't know the answers to your questions. as for the texture of the pavers, they are supposed to look very much like the cobblestones but without the dis-advantage of the stones loosening during the frost and coming out creating huge potholes. Cobblestones (or more properly Belgan Building Blocks) can be very smooth when properly maintained. Heavy trucks also help dislodge the stones on Germantown Ave. Really, it seems like a good, innovative solution; the community likes the look of the building blocks but the city cannot afford to pay to keep them in pristine shape all the time. This may be a good balance. Give it a chance.
I will grant you that properly-maintained belgian block can be smooth(ish), but they will never be as smooth as modern paving methods. For example, I live on what I consider one of the worse-maintained roads in Northwest Philly... the asphalt is cracked, there are potholes and patches all over, and manholes are at different altitudes than the roadway. It's still a smoother ride than driving on the cobblestones on even the best-maintained portion of Germantown Avenue. The only reason to hang on to them, then, is their aesthetic appeal; they add a charming appearance to any street and perfectly offset the historic structures all along the road. Unless the conrete version is a very close approximation, it will have the ultimate effect of being like a diner-block patch applied to one of the area's century-old stone houses -- it will just look tacky.

I am willing to give them a chance, but surely you can understand my trepidation.

Heading somewhere close to topic again, though, does anyone know how the rails will be rebuilt? Will it be replaced as-is, or with an upgrade to modern light rail standards (the latter giving us reason to hope for the future, the former giving us reasons to fear, as they won't spend the money to tear it all up again)?