Federal, Night Owl, Twilight Shoreliner (Trains 65, 66, 67)

The other issue is that between SPY and University Heights is two tracks in a tight viaduct. Normally wouldn't be much of a problem but Metro North's schedule's a bit packed.

Possible? Yes. I even wrote about such a move (which should pop on my sequel novel's Patreon this month)... although I have the consist come from south, reverse (by towing with an engine) off the Empire Connector to MN territory north of SPY (assuming no wye there), then take the wye in South Bronx before reversing into Grand Central. Granted, if a wye in SPY were to be put in, it would save a lot of move swapping (the consist would be towed straight in to GCT).

Lots of coordination here.

Everything I’ve heard about the wye at SD was negative; incredibly tight turning radius plus the impediment of other traffic. The wye at Mott Haven is tight as well; Yankee Clippers are maybe going 5 mph through there.

You also have to turn train in NYP.

You’re adding some serious time to the schedule.

I’m not sure how MNRR would feel about that. Of course it is middle of night.

Jeff Smith wrote: ↑Sun Apr 02, 2023 4:20 am Everything I’ve heard about the wye at SD was negative; incredibly tight turning radius plus the impediment of other traffic. The wye at Mott Haven is tight as well; Yankee Clippers are maybe going 5 mph through there.

You also have to turn train in NYP.

You’re adding some serious time to the schedule.

I’m not sure how MNRR would feel about that. Of course it is middle of night.

Okay, you got me hooked. Lets assume we're double-headed for ease of reversing/turning, and the consist is essentially 10 car lengths long (850') -- 8 passenger cars and 2 engines with clearance.

First, check the layout on "as is"... a window is needed to get a train from the Empire Connector onto MN track, then cross over 4-to-1 NNW of the Hudson-Harlem wye, take the wye onto the Harlem, then switch onto track 1 or 3 to get to New Rochelle (NRO).

NYP to Yonkers is 30 minutes and a rough 14-15 miles of track. Tracing the route and checking track speeds... it's likely we can get to the Harlem line in under 45 minutes and NRO in another 6-10 minutes.

NYP to NRO normally is 31 minutes but 66 waits 45 minutes before/afterhand at NYP. 1h16m...

With some negotiation for slots, Amtrak and Metro-North could do it. I think Amtrak is just short an engine and engineer to do nothing but watch out the rear window for most of the BOS-NYP trip (or get on/off at NRO/NYP)... or found it easier just to cut service.

What's the point of restoring this service without the sleeper? The last time I rode this train, it was the absolutely worst experience I've ever had on Amtrak. They wouldn't let anyone sleep, for God's sake. The lights stayed on all night, and conductors roamed the train yelling at anyone who fell asleep: WAKE UP! It was particularly bad south of New York, after a new crew got on board. THEY got to sleep at least part of the night; the passengers were allowed no sleep at all. It was the midnight train to hell.

The south of NY crews are the fricking worst on this route. Absolutely no respect for passengers trying to sleep. Even when they had a sleeper they’d still blast announcements on the PA. I’ve filed many complaints.

Couldn't agree more. I guess their feeling is "If I have to be awake at this middle of the night then I will keep everyone else awake as well".

BAR
Williamsburg, VA

That's ugly. I know Amtrak has nighttime protocols; the Downeaster observes them on 689/699/1689 (the late NB runs out of Boston).

markhb wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 8:10 am That's ugly. I know Amtrak has nighttime protocols; the Downeaster observes them on 689/699/1689 (the late NB runs out of Boston).

I would love to see the text of these protocols. Sounds like we need to escalate this to executive support.

I suspect the non-observance of nighttime protocols may be an individual crew issue.

Ever time over the past 25 years I've taken the Night Owl (as it shall remain in my mind, regardless of any name changes Amtrak management makes), usually from DC to Boston, the crews have turned off the main lights, and turned down the volume of announcements for the entire trip. Granted, trying to sleep in coach or Business Class seating isn't the most pleasant trip in any case - I generally refer to it by saying "When you need to travel in the worst possible way, it's the worst possible way to travel". Every time I've needed to get home from DC on short notice, or had flights back to the Boston area cancelled at the last minute, I've been able to rely on the Night Owl to get me home. It may not always be comfortable, but it's reliable, and that's what matters.

charlesriverbranch wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 7:05 am What's the point of restoring this service without the sleeper? ........; the passengers were allowed no sleep at all. It was the midnight train to hell.

Egads, this is like 1968 on some rail lines that was the impetus to have Amtrak.

I can see where there could be a sleeper only in service DC-Boston, but still in consist south of DC, just vacated, since Amtrak isn't very good at splitting consists apart in middle of a route, hasn't much since Desert Wind IIRC. Is LSL still split up in Albany or do people have to transfer cars?

LSL and Empire Builder split in Albany and Spokane respectively.

danib62 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 24, 2023 6:17 am LSL and Empire Builder split in Albany and Spokane respectively.

Thank you for reminding me about Spokane. I can see where Albany's costs can be covered with the Empire Service, but how is Spokane covered with only two operations per day of operation. Although middle of night, both are on same shift.

I can never see us having the breaking apart and reconfiguring of consists in middle of a route such as happened at Harrisburg and Pittsburgh [on the PRR] or Albany, Buffalo and Cleveland [on the NYC] or any other number of private railroads. Between costs and the current safety and work rules since 50+ years ago, I just do not see it happening though there are a dozen or more routings that could be possible.

urr304 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 24, 2023 6:15 am I can see where there could be a sleeper only in service DC-Boston, but still in consist south of DC, just vacated, since Amtrak isn't very good at splitting consists apart in middle of a route . . .

Well they need to change engines in D.C., so a sleeper at the head end could easily be added or removed with the engine.

bostontrainguy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 24, 2023 10:57 am Well they need to change engines in D.C., so a sleeper at the head end could easily be added or removed with the engine.

The Airo trains will do away with the engine changes, so I doubt Amtrak will re-introduce a sleeper just to kill it a couple of years later.

I remember taking the Empire Builder from Chicago to Spokane and then from Spokane to Portland in the late '80s. There was a Superliner coach that ran from Portland-Spokane and was available to board in the evening, which meant I slept through the train splitting. Has that operation ceased?

urr304 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 24, 2023 6:51 am I can never see us having the breaking apart and reconfiguring of consists in middle of a route such as happened at Harrisburg and Pittsburgh [on the PRR] or Albany, Buffalo and Cleveland [on the NYC] or any other number of private railroads.

NHV was the most notable example: Boston and Springfield trains joined and split, multiple times daily. SPG
has been demoted to shuttle service.

VIA still does it on the Corridor and in northern Quebec.