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  • Did Pennsy ever consider electrifying lines other than in th

  • Discussion relating to the PRR, up to 1968. Visit the PRR Technical & Historical Society for more information.
Discussion relating to the PRR, up to 1968. Visit the PRR Technical & Historical Society for more information.
 #379903  by motor
 
Did Pennsy ever consider, for example, electrifying in the Pittsburgh area?

I'm not saying they should have electrified every trunk line (imagine the Horseshoe Curve with catenary - not necessary or visually attractive) but I was just wondering if electrification outside the Philadelphia area and NYC to DC was ever considered. Was it considered too expensive?

Imagine PRR as "The Electrified Railroad of the World"! :-D

motor

PRR

 #379996  by amtrakhogger
 
The PRR did propose electrifying Harrisburg-Pittsburgh. Ultimately,
I think they wanted to electrify to Chicago but it never came to fruition.

Imagine, GG1's running at speed from Crestline to Fort Wayne!

 #380016  by pennsy
 
Hi,

Over the years, the PRR had ideas on electrification of various other areas, and it never came to pass. The bottom line was always funding, and budgeting. Also their credit rating was like a rollercoaster.

And yes, I would have loved to see GG-1's battling up Horseshoe Curve. I'll bet they would have done it at speed. I still have videos of long freights with FOUR GG-1's on the point.

 #380084  by AlexC
 
I think the PRR went as far as asking Westinghouse (?) for plans for a mountain electric.

 #380179  by rrbluesman
 
The PRR had plans to electrify all the way to Chicago, never could materialize funding to do so after the NEC was completed and the Depression. They wanted all their main line passenger services and big name trains to be electrified, so far as I understand afetr perusing the Temple University PRR records.

 #380231  by motor
 
Interesting information, folks. You just made me recant my OP statement about catenary on the HC being neither necessary or attractive (a recanting I was thinking about anyway, having since this morning given it some more thought). :-) [blush] Thanks. And I mean that without one drop of sarcasm.

Having had (as a child) a habit of drawing PRR-style H-design catenary on my grandparents' blackboard (I talked about that on the thread about RFK's funeral train on the PC board), I wonder if H-design catenary would have been used on all PRR's main routes, if it had the money?

motor
 #380555  by amtrakhogger
 
The Pennsy could have gotten away from those "H" style cat poles to a simpler style had they set up substations with local utility feeds. But I do not think that was practical back in the 1930's owing to the fact that
commerical utlities used 60hz power vs. the PRR which used 25hz.

 #380798  by Nasadowsk
 
IMHO, had the practical rectifier come along prior to WWII, you WOULD have seen a lot more electrification. What killed future expansion of the PRR system was it was 25hz. Had they been able to buy rectifiers, it could have changed things drastically. Even in the early 50's, rectifiers were seen as the 'last piece of the puzzle' for widespread electrification.

 #382754  by Schuylkill Valley
 
I found this on a web site.

Electrification

The electrified part of the Pennsylvania railroadThe first lines of the Pennsylvania Railroad selected for electrification were parts of the Long Island Railroad in 1905 and the West Jersey & Seashore Railroad from Camden to Atlantic City in 1906. These lines were planned for multiple-unit car operation, and the service on the Long Island has been extended to more than half the entire trackage. The system used was 600 volts D.C. supplied through a third rail. The same system was planned and adopted for the Hudson and East River tunnels and Pennsylvania Station. Today over a thousand multiple-unit cars are operated on the Long Island alone.

For electrification, some of the New Haven Railroad standards were adopted.

As the Hell Gate Bridge 11,000-volt single-phase A.C. system was extended through route to New England, the New Haven, and to the Bowery Bay junction with the Long Island in 1918. In the Bowery Junction, the interchange of Pennsylvania D.C. locomotives with New Haven A.C. engines was made on through passenger trains.
In 1927 the freight line of the New York Connecting Railroad was similarly electrified, the operation of trains beginning in July. Thus through freight trains from Bay Ridge, after classification at Greenville yard, were thereafter electrically operated to Cedar Hill yard at New Haven.
When the work on the Hudson River tunnels and Pennsylvania Station was in progress, the type of electric locomotives to be used was an important consideration. At that time just a few electric locomotives had previously been built anywhere. Several experimental locomotives were designed by railroad and Westinghouse engineers and tried on the West Jersey track. From these tests a 4-4-0 type of 211 DC locomotive was developed using 650 volts D.C., with side rods coupled to a jack shaft and from this, in turn, to a 2,000-horsepower motor mounted above the frame. Having a high center of gravity, it was not as destructive to the track as the gear-driven truck types. Classified as DD-1 and used in pairs back to back, 33 of these engines having Westinghouse equipment were built at Altoona. They were capable of speeds up to 85 miles per hour. Placed in service in 1910, they proved to be very efficient.
Electrification structure used in American NortheastA few years after the opening of Pennsylvania Station in New York, Philadelphia's Broad Street Station presented the next traffic problem which was to be solved by electrification. Here the increase in the number of passenger trains and especially the heavy suburban traffic required improvement of conditions, and in 1915 the 20 miles of main line to Paoli was electrified. In 1918, this was extended to the Chestnut Hill Branch and in 1924, the electrification of the Fort Washington Branch was completed. The line to Wilmington and the West Chester Branch were included in the program in 1928, and in 1930 Norristown had electric train service. The system originally decided upon in view of possible future main-line expansion was the 11,000-volt single-phase catenary type.
The first equipment to be put into service consisted of 93 motor cars, and by 1924 there were 286 cars of this type in use. By 1935 the motor and trailer equipment totaled 43 units, with the number eventually reaching 524 units. The most powerful single-unit electric locomotive ever built was tried in 1917 and used experimentally for a number of years. This was classed FF-1 and had a 2-8-8-2 wheel arrangement with side-rod drive, developing a tractive force of 140,000 pounds. In 1924 another type of side-rod locomotive was designed and three of these L5 engines were built. Two were D.C. engines for use in the New York electrified zone and the third, number 3930, was A.C.-equipped and put in service at Philadelphia. Later 21 more L5 locomotives were built for the New York service. A six-wheeled switching engine was the next electric motive power designed, being classified as B-1. Of the first 16 A.C. engines, two were used at Philadelphia and 14 on the Bay Ridge line, while 12 D.C.-equipped engines were assigned to Sunnyside Yard.

[edit] Electrification of the Philadelphia-New York main line
was continued. The service from Philadelphia to Trenton was started in 1930, and in January 1933 through main-line service between the principal cities was placed in operation. The first test run of an electric train between Philadelphia and Washington occurred on January 28, 1935. On the following February 1 the Congressional Limiteds in both directions were the first trains in regular electric operation between New York and Washington, being drawn by the first of the GG-1 type locomotives.

all regular passenger trains between these cities were electrified by March 15 , and shortly thereafter through trains to the west were electrically operated from New York to Paoli.
various types of locomotives were being designed For the long-range electrification program, . One was the O1 class, a light passenger type of the 4-4-4 wheel arrangement. Eight of these engines were built from June 1930 to December 1931. A 4-6-4 type classed as the P5 was also built, two being placed in service in July and August, 1931. Following these came the P5A, which was slightly heavier, also having a 4-6-4 wheel arrangement and being capable of 80 miles per hour, the tractive force being 56,250 pounds. In all, 89 of these locomotives were built; the first with box cabs were placed in service in 1932, and the following year the last 28 under construction were redesigned to have a streamline type of cab. Some of these engines were regeared for freight service.
In 1933, about the same time the P5A engines were undergoing the exterior changes, two entirely new locomotives were being planned, and these were completed in September 1934- One was the R-1, a 4-8-4 type, and the other was the first GG-1 class having a 4-6-0+0-6-4 wheel arrangement. The R-1 had a rigid frame for its four driving axles, while the GG-1 had two 4-6-0 frames which were articulated. Both these types, together with the 01, P5A, a New Haven Railroad 4-6-0+0-6-4 type electric, and a K4s steam locomotive, underwent exhaustive tests over a special section of test track near Claymont, Delaware. These tests, begun in 1933, were carried on for nearly two years.
As a result of these experiments, the GG-1 type was chosen and the construction of 57 locomotives was authorized, the first being completed in April and all by August 1935. With the use of these engines for passenger service, most of the P5A type were made available for freight service. When more GG-1s were built, some of these, too, were assigned to freight, there being a total of 139 engines of this type. They are rated at 4,620 horsepower at speeds of 100 miles an hour. To complete the electrification project initiated in 1928, work was started January 27, 1937, on the main line from Paoli to Harrisburg, the low-grade freight line from Morrisville through Columbia to Enola Yard, the freight line from Perryville to Columbia, and the freight line from Monmouth junction to South Amboy. In less than a year-on the following January 15-the first passenger train, the Metropolitan, went into operation over the newly electrified line from Philadelphia to Harrisburg. On April 15 the electrified freight service from Harrisburg and Enola Yard east was inaugurated, thus completing the Pennsylvania's eastern seaboard electrification program with a total Of 2,677 miles of track electrified, 41 percent of the total electrically operated standard railroad trackage of the United States.

Hope that helps some.

Len

 #384417  by rnetzlof
 
"For electrification, some of the New Haven Railroad standards were adopted."

Well, not exactly. George Westinghouse argued (correctly, in my opinion) that to achieve the greatest benefit from electrification, there needed to be standardization of all aspects of the electrical system. That covered not only the electrical characteristics, but the mechanical details of the catenary and distribution system.

Thus, while the PRR AC electrification resembled the New Haven's in many ways, it was more a matter of both adhering to the Westinghouse standards, rather than PRR borrowing NH practices. On the other hand, I'm sure PRR did look to the NH to see how well the Westinghouse standards worked in practice, before commiting to them.

Bob Netzlof