• Did GE discontinue the Genesis?

  • Discussion of General Electric locomotive technology. Current official information can be found here: www.getransportation.com.
Discussion of General Electric locomotive technology. Current official information can be found here: www.getransportation.com.

Moderators: AMTK84, MEC407

  by Wayside Observer
 
I believe that GE discontinued the Genesis line after delivering the last few units to both MNR and Via Rail.
  by DutchRailnut
 
you believe wrong, the Gensis design was uodated and has been in GE catalog but did not sell.


Image

next Genesis will be the MBTA HSP-46 built by MPI but with GE parts including the GEVO engine.
there may even be a dual mode unit available.
Last edited by DutchRailnut on Fri Nov 12, 2010 9:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
  by Allen Hazen
 
Thank you for posting that "architect's impression"! I've seen a number of posts complaining about the narrow, slitlike, front windows of the Genesis (not sure how many were from actual enginemen and how many from train-watchers imagining what they'd feel if they were trainmen...): it looks as if GE and Mr Vergara tried to increase the window area on the redesigned cab, and (by having two of the windshield panels be on an angle) widen the engineman's field of vision.

It will be interesting to see whether the GE-MPI units look more like this or more like MPI's EMD-engined units.

I'll also be intersted to see how much they weigh: recent MPI commuter locomotives have been VERY heavy for 4-axled power, significantly heavier than the original Genesis.
  by MEC407
 
Member "diburning" found this image online and posted it in the HSP46 thread in the MBTA forum:

Image

It was used in one of GE's video presentations at InnoTrans 2010. Keep in mind that the video's aspect ratio was stretched horizontally to fill a 16:9 display, hence the image above is stretched. Try to imagine it not looking as squished as it does above.
  by Allen Hazen
 
MEC407--
Is the purchaser for the "Tomorrow" version identifiable on a larger reproduction of this slide? The color scheme is, I take it, conjectural: the lines separating its light and dark blue areas are the same as those separating purple and gray in the MBTA colors on the "Today" version. (And does the combination of a mainly reddish cab with a more metallic color to the rear suggest that the MBTA designer was channelling the ATSF warbonnet?)
  by mtuandrew
 
Allen Hazen wrote:MEC407--
Is the purchaser for the "Tomorrow" version identifiable on a larger reproduction of this slide? The color scheme is, I take it, conjectural: the lines separating its light and dark blue areas are the same as those separating purple and gray in the MBTA colors on the "Today" version. (And does the combination of a mainly reddish cab with a more metallic color to the rear suggest that the MBTA designer was channelling the ATSF warbonnet?)
It looks like the "Tomorrow" version is wearing a GE logo on its nose, so that's probably whatever color scheme looked best to the graphic artist.
  by v8interceptor
 
DutchRailnut wrote:you believe wrong, the Gensis design was uodated and has been in GE catalog but did not sell.


Image

next Genesis will be the MBTA HSP-46 built by MPI but with GE parts including the GEVO engine.
there may even be a dual mode unit available.
Technically that Illustration is not a Genesis unit (if built it would have a GEVO engine and different electrical system,including the option of AC traction motors)as it would certainly have a new model designation (given, they could dub it "Genesis II") anymore then an ES44AC is a AC4400CW (though they are direct descendents)...
  by DutchRailnut
 
The P32acdm has AC traction motors and is a Genesis ??
  by Allen Hazen
 
External appearance (what I think I have seen referred to as "cosmetic design" on a patent application for something else) of the unit in the "Railway Age" article Dutch posted, except for the front end, is very similar to the Genesis. I believe that the end of Genesis (FDL-powered Genesis, that is) coincided with the introduction of new FRA (? maybe another agency more concerned with commuter operations ?) regulations affecting cab features. My guess is that the design depicted is as much like the original Genesis as it can be, given a new cab and whatever structural modifications are involved in using the new engine.
  by MEC407
 
I may be in the minority, but I think the original Genesis design is beautiful. I didn't love it at first, but it has grown on me and I've come to appreciate the unique blend of form and function.

The redesigned version ain't bad either.
  by Allen Hazen
 
Beauty... is hard to be objective about. I like the basic Genesis body (seen from overhead, the long clean roofline with a big cooling fan at the rear is rather reminiscent of an Alco-GE PA!), but I think the front end still needs work.
  by 25Hz
 
Allen Hazen wrote:Beauty... is hard to be objective about. I like the basic Genesis body (seen from overhead, the long clean roofline with a big cooling fan at the rear is rather reminiscent of an Alco-GE PA!), but I think the front end still needs work.
I like how short it is & the way the top of the sides come in towards the roof, and how the roof is curved but yea that front end is very odd & bland.
  by Fan Railer
 
Allen Hazen wrote: I'll also be intersted to see how much they weigh: recent MPI commuter locomotives have been VERY heavy for 4-axled power, significantly heavier than the original Genesis.
I'm not entirely sure where you're getting this from. The original genesis locomotives aren't that much lighter than MPI's units. There's only about a 15k to 20k lbs difference, unless you consider that "significantly heavier". 270,000-290,000 lbs seems to be norm for 4 axle passenger locomotives since the 90s.
  by DutchRailnut
 
The Max allowable on Amtrak is 279 000 Lbs on 4 axles, which is about the weight of Genesis.
  by Allen Hazen
 
Thanks, Dutch! Actual numbers are helpful in discussions. Does the same weight limit apply to freight locomotives of operators who run freight over Amtrak-owned lines?

F.w.i.w. The heaviest Amtrak four-axle locomotives seem to be the P32AC-- the dual mode Genesis used on runs into New York City-- at 275,000 pounds. Despite having only a 12-cylinder engine, it is several thousand pounds heavier than the DC Genesis types.

A few more numbers.
--- U.S. railroads tend to go for per-axle weights around one-and-a-half times what is permitted on (more passenger-oriented) European railroads.
--- 270,000 pounds, in the 1970s, was thought of as a reasonable weight for a 4-axle FREIGHT engine.
--- The F40 (EMD cowl-carbody passenger derivative of the GP-40 built for Amtrak and others starting in the late 1970s) was 259,000 pounds. (Significantly less than a typical GP-40 despite added weight of cowl and passenger (HEP) equipment. Obviously efforts were made to shave pounds-- the unit is a bit shorter than a GP-40-- but a lot of the saving was probably due to a smaller fuel tank.)
--- The P40 (first Amtrak Genesis model) was 263,000 pounds, despite such weight-saving design features as monocoque carboy and fuel tank made integral with frame. (GE's FDL engine is heavier than an EMD 645, and GE traction motors are heavier the EMD's.)
--- The P42 (second series of Genesis locomotives) was 269,000 pounds. (There's a general "law" about the modification and improvement and modernization and updating of engineering: THINGS GET HEAVIER.)

--- All weight discipline seems to have been lost in other designs. EMD's engines for the Long Island were 294,000 pounds, and the MP36/MP40 types from Boise can apparently weigh up to 295,000: these are heavier, per axle, than CSX's 436,000 pound "heavy" AC4400/ES44AC six-axle freight types!

(Sources: most of the weights above are from Greg McDonnell's book on contemporary diesels, which gives 260,000 for the F40: 259,000 is from the EMD operator's manual, written specifically for Amtrak units with numbers in the low 200s, valuable online at George Ellwood's "Fallen Flags" rail image site.)