Delaware and Raritan River Railroad-General Discussion

@CR7876 Almost everything I brought up is stuff I’ve personally witnessed, and that’s only what they get up to on NJT trackage.

Just my two cents:
1. How is the project to reconnect the FIT and SOUS wrapped in red tape? Granted, some people have been squatting on the ROW for probably 20+ years now, that property is still technically state-owned meaning its owner can tell you to eff off a hell of a lot easier than if a private entity owned it. C&D doesn't own the track, NJT/NJDOT does, and therefore, they should be behind C&D with the paperwork telling the ROW squatters to move out of the way.
2. Who is causing issues regarding #1? I live right by both lines, and I frequently drive by the OOS portion. Most of it is in the middle of nowhere, with not many neighbors. There are a few spots where it crosses over extensive farmlands, and it seems the farmers there have respected the ROW and have not infringed on it.
3. If C&D and NJT have such bad relations, why did the state give them the grant to do this work? Not denying that they don't have the best operations on their own territory (not to mention I have seen pictures and we have two people attesting to poor practices on C&D's part), but why on earth would the state that runs/owns NJT give this grant to someone NJT has rough relations with??
4. Going off of 3, there's a chance that C&D will just do railroad construction, and not operate on said line (long-term, at least). Especially with NJSL contracted to operate a huge length of the former Southern Division, I can't see CR/NJDOT setting themselves up for a logistical nightmare. CMSL getting rights over an extensive part of some now-former CR territory could support this theory
5. A company like RJ Corman would probably be better for this project, since RJ Corman has extensive experience re-establishing OOS/abandoned ROWs, but that's not the case here.

Bracdude, I believe you should go back and re-read ccutler's post. It fairly drips with heavy-handed sarcasm.

Also if NJT was so dam' hot to get freight off their precious tracks, one would be led to believe they would be bending over backwards (i.e. not fussing too much over short-term usage of S Amboy to Red Bank) in order for C&D or whoever to renovate Freehold-Farmingdale and remove ALL FREIGHT FOREVER on the NJCL. They may or may not be stupid; I have no way of knowing, but that stupid?

Yes I guess not everyone is fluent in the language of sarcasm. NJT is terrible for freight rail.

Hard to believe there was a time not so long ago, where multiple companies ran BOTH freight AND passenger at the same time, with no problems at all. Not to mention there were far more of each back then, there were sometimes less tracks/sidings to be used, and still, passenger and freight trains co-existed on the same routes, and even went faster then than now.

Looks like we've regressed quite a bit in that regard as times changed

Well, no filings with the STB in 2021. Must be mired in legal, or ?

JohnFromJersey wrote: ↑Fri Dec 31, 2021 9:12 pm Hard to believe there was a time not so long ago, where multiple companies ran BOTH freight AND passenger at the same time, with no problems at all. Not to mention there were far more of each back then, there were sometimes less tracks/sidings to be used, and still, passenger and freight trains co-existed on the same routes, and even went faster then than now.

Looks like we've regressed quite a bit in that regard as times changed

Not so hard to believe, when gub'mint agencies are involved. Profit motive? We don't need no steenkin profit motive !

How long have they had the grant money? They risk losing it if they don’t use it.

Provided they don’t get STB approval, would it be possible for C&D to re-allocate the funds to use on their current network? As it stands there’s currently no shortage of areas that need improvement and they still have some projects planned going off the RFP section of their website.

The only way the grant system makes sense is "use it or lose it" for the stated purpose; they're not playing Santa to a given company. It's given for the purpose stated in the grant request. They may look favorably in another company taking over the rehab of the Freehold to Southern connect, but that would need to go thru the grant process, hopefully expedited since the funds are allocated. We first saw the grant in March or April, shortly after it was announced.

How long are they allowed to have this money and not use it? As it stands it doesn’t look like anything will be happening any time soon.

Strictly a guess on my part: somewhere between 2 and 5 years. I don't know if it is handed out as a lump sum, or as needed, or as a guarantee to any contractors that they will be paid upon completion of their work. I would guess if the money is not used it would be rolled over into the pot of grant money in a future year. Hey, I'm impatient too, but it is what it is, maybe tomorrow.

At least 2 years because it's doubtful the work can be done in less time.

Bracdude181 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 5:01 pm How long are they allowed to have this money and not use it? As it stands it doesn’t look like anything will be happening any time soon.

Three years unless an extension is requested and granted for good cause shown: "N.J.A.C. 16:53C-4.3 Duration of financial assistance
(a) Financial assistance for a project is limited in duration to a period not to exceed three
years from the date of execution of the project agreement. Should circumstances dictate that a
project's duration extend beyond the agreement's expiration date, the sponsor shall request
such an extension from the Department in writing, including a detailed justification for the re-
quest.
(b) Circumstances to be considered upon a request for an extension of the duration of as-
sistance shall include, but not be limited to: unanticipated additional work directly associated
with the project; inability to accomplish the project within the specified time-frame due to cir-
cumstances beyond the sponsor's control; and forced staging of financing over a period greater
than three years."

CharlieL wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 5:11 pm Strictly a guess on my part: somewhere between 2 and 5 years. I don't know if it is handed out as a lump sum, or as needed, or as a guarantee to any contractors that they will be paid upon completion of their work. I would guess if the money is not used it would be rolled over into the pot of grant money in a future year. Hey, I'm impatient too, but it is what it is, maybe tomorrow.

At least 2 years because it's doubtful the work can be done in less time.

Most government grants are paid on a reimbursement basis on an ongoing basis as work is completed and that is true of these railroad grants. There is no advance of funds. See Section (1)(b): "N.J.A.C. 16:53C-4.2 Amount and form of financial assistance
(a) Financial assistance may be provided to projects as follows:
1. For Class I railroads, financial assistance may be provided at 50 percent of the total eli-
gible cost with the remaining 50 percent to be paid by the sponsor;
2. For Class II railroads, financial assistance may be provided at 70 percent of the total eli-
gible cost with the remaining 30 percent to be paid by the sponsor; and
3. For Class III railroads, financial assistance may be provided at 90 percent of the total
eligible cost with the remaining 10 percent to be paid by the sponsor.
(b) Financial assistance shall be paid on a reimbursement basis to the sponsor. Requests
for payment shall be made on a State invoice form with supporting documentation deemed
sufficient by the Department. The invoice is available on the Department's website at:
www.state.nj.us/transportation/business/vendorhelp/. The Commissioner shall determine all
financial terms and conditions of the grant, which shall be set forth in a project agreement."

Thanks, Ken W2KB.

CharlieL wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 7:15 pm Thanks, Ken W2KB.

\
You are most welcome. It was interesting to look up the regulations to see how the grants are administered. We may have to wait quite some time to see what happens.