Delaware and Raritan River Railroad-General Discussion

Why don't we wait and see before we condemn them. You've been complaining about CRSA, don't be negative until we see what happens. They're taking over something you consider to be a bucket of - - excrement. Don't expect attar of rose, just something better.

jdh823 wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 7:00 pm

Bracdude181 wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 4:08 pm @CharlieL Last I heard they want to get started on that within the first 2 years of operation. Personally I think they should focus on getting Lakewood to Lakehurst open first. That eliminates the hell that is Cross Street and allows NJSL to FINALLY get going.

No way. Number 1 priority should be to get that gap between freehold-Farmingdale done so they can go to only 1 interchange instead of 2, and they won't need extra power on both sides.

Fair enough, but at the same time Lakewood to Lakehurst is in FAR better shape and needs nowhere near the amount of work Farmingdale to Freehold. Just a brush clearing, washout repair, and a new crossing in Whitesville. They REALLY should look at the Bridge under 70 in Lakehurst though. The pilings there are kinda beat up from when SA93 parked NS 5311 on that bridge 11 years ago. They put a new deck in but didn’t touch the pilings.

@CharlieL I am waiting to see but I can’t help but worry. That and almost everyone complains about Conrail North Jersey now. Even CSX!

Bracdude181,

thank you for replying and explaining. I know SA 31 has other assignments everyday and from what you say it may be abolished if the new railroad takes over. I know Browns Yard gets cars from Port Reading and Oak Island Yards, and serve the local areas from that yard. Seems there is a lot of other issues that need to be addressed before this is active.

I have rad other posts on this topic and one of the posts seems to have knowledge of how the new railroad works in other parts of NJ, complaints of service etc. Would the STB grant the new rr operating rights to this trackage or not?

OI 16 runs from Oak Island to browns yard daily sometime they may stop at Port Reading Yard first then to Browns Yard. It's good that CR still maintains trackage rights on these lines if Dover & Raritan River RR fail or don't pursue this. Steve Corggoi

@steve OI16 doesn’t go to Browns every day anymore, it’s more like as needed practically.

Bracdude181 wrote:@steve OI16 doesn’t go to Browns every day anymore, it’s more like as needed practically.

That's not 100% accurate. OI16 runs 7 days a week ( JR05 on Monday and Tuesday), and carries traffic for Browns every day. The only day they are not scheduled to go to Browns are Saturday's. They leave them at Pt Reading and either go back to Oak Island lite or with Westbound's. Sundays train will normally pick up Saturdays Browns and take them to Browns, returning to Oak Island Lite.
If during Monday-Friday runs they end at Port Reading, PR52 who comes on Duty at 2300 takes the train to Browns. The PR52 will run Westbound's from Browns and Pt Reading ( Sometimes Bayway) to Oak Island. OI16 and PR52 use the same set of engines.

TLDR: Cars get to Browns 6 days a week, usually.

Wow PR52 is actually still around? Haven’t heard about that train in a while.

I think we should all just hope DRRR does well here - at this point, any operator that plans on doing something different from CR, is a better operator than CR. We still have a little less than a month before DRRR takes over, so we should give them a considerable amount of time operating the line(s) before doing any critique on them.

A few other questions:
1. Will DRRR off the bat be giving multi-day service to Woodhaven?
2. How fast (or slow) did it take C&D to start and complete their projects in other lines they took over?
3. I know it's been said that reconnecting FIT-SOUS will take upwards of 2 years - I personally doubt that, I think it could be much faster.

Mod Note: Closed pending merge - https://railroad.net/delaware-and-rarit ... 74281.html

I think we should all just hope DRRR does well here - at this point, any operator that plans on doing something different from CR, is a better operator than CR. We still have a little less than a month before DRRR takes over, so we should give them a considerable amount of time operating the line(s) before doing any critique on them.

A few questions:
1. When DRR takes over the Southern Secondary, what's going to happen to the "CR on the Southern Secondary" thread? We just had the "Speculation on the future of Southern & Freehold Secondaries - C&D/D&D" topic merged to this one, and that was a pretty sizeable thread. "CR on the Southern Secondary" is by far the largest thread on the "New Jersey Railfan" topic, so will that have its name changed or are we going to close that and move it here too???
2. Will DRRR off the bat be giving multi-day service to Woodhaven?
3. How fast (or slow) did it take C&D to start and complete their projects in other lines they took over?
4. I know it's been said that reconnecting FIT-SOUS will take upwards of 2 years - I personally doubt that, I think it could be much faster.

@JohnFromJersey

1. I would imagine that any future operations of the line will be reported here instead of there. I say leave that topic open so anything before June 19th can be discussed there. Plus, Conrail still retains operating rights on the Southern, so they could still go down it in the future.

2. Well, the Plate F project in Phillipsburg was done a couple months after they took over the Washington Secondary from NS. (around August?) No clue how long that took. Washington Yard rebuild was done about a year later. They want to put a small yard in Phillipsburg to make the NS exchange easier but have yet to make progress on that project. Same for the Rockaway Branch realignment project. Except for an RFP to design it by Morris County there’s been nothing on that either. Morris county has been wanting that done for several years now.

3. Too early to be certain but I have heard they might run Tuesday and Friday on the Southern. Unsure about Freehold. Still pondering over what engines we will see. Aside from the POS that is C&D 2006 and BDRV 752, C&D 1567 is the only other engine they have available that seems to be in operable shape. DRRV 915 is out of service and BDRV 1856 is still being repaired. All other engines are assigned to the DDRR,DRRV, BDRV, or are out on lease…

4. It could be done faster, they have to at least get started on it soon or they loose the grant money.

Bracdude181 wrote:@JohnFromJersey

2. Well, the Plate F project in Phillipsburg was done a couple months after they took over the Washington Secondary from NS. (around August?) No clue how long that took. Washington Yard rebuild was done about a year later. They want to put a small yard in Phillipsburg to make the NS exchange easier but have yet to make progress on that project. Same for the Rockaway Branch realignment project. Except for an RFP to design it by Morris County there’s been nothing on that either. Morris county has been wanting that done for several years now.

3. Too early to be certain but I have heard they might run Tuesday and Friday on the Southern. Unsure about Freehold. Still pondering over what engines we will see. Aside from the POS that is C&D 2006 and BDRV 752, C&D 1567 is the only other engine they have available that seems to be in operable shape. DRRV 915 is out of service and BDRV 1856 is still being repaired. All other engines are assigned to the DDRR,DRRV, BDRV, or are out on lease…

4. It could be done faster, they have to at least get started on it soon or they loose the grant money.

2. The Project in Phillipsburg is done, they added the old DL&W Westbound Main back in. http://www.chesapeakeanddelaware.com/im ... FP2101.pdf . Like most things the project was delayed about 6 months due to Covid. All projects for the County owned lines go through the County not the Railroad operator.

3. Probably. I think we will see 5 day a week service between the two sides, probably 2 for the Sous and 3 for the Fit, if needed. I think two of the following Engines are going to be available : 1567,1856,1888,2005,2006,5303,5304. I think Freehold will rate a GP9 or SW1500, and the Southern a GP38.

4. I think once they get STB approval they will put a RFP out and start. Probably end of summer.

Isn’t 1888 assigned to Lake Junction right now?

Bracdude181 wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 4:08 pm @CharlieL Last I heard they want to get started on that within the first 2 years of operation. Personally I think they should focus on getting Lakewood to Lakehurst open first. That eliminates the hell that is Cross Street and allows NJSL to FINALLY get going.

Is NJSL still in the picture? The latest information I could find in the STB records is the approval of the original operating contract between Clayton and NJSL (i.e., CMSL), and there is no relevant Federal Register Notice since that time. The STB documentation states "Accordingly, on August 5, 2009, Clayton entered into an Operating Agreement with NJSL granting it the exclusive right to provide common carrier railroad service over this line for a 10 year period," Hence, it appears that the contract between Clayton and NJSL expired in August, 2019. Would not Clayton as a matter of business sense prefer to deal with only one railroad, not two, and thus contract with C&D to operate Clayton's trackage?

As to the comment that Lakewood-Lakehurst is in much better shape and would require much less work, as of now there are ZERO customers down there. They'll probably focus on Freehold-Farmingdale, to rationalize the use of equipment and crews. Refurb of the line to Lakehurst is in their future plans according to the grant request, but their focus must be on return-on-investment first. L to L is a "if you build it, they will come" (in other words, iffy) proposition at this point. They are in business to make money, not please railfans.