CSX train name changes?

Hi;
I have been monitoring the CSX River Line in Teaneck, NJ and noticed that for the past few days (unless I am mistaken), northbound trains now have odd numbered names (Q161, etc) and southbounds are even numbered.
I thought it was the reverse; or am I completely mistaken?

FW

Edit/correction: The train name I heard was L161, not Q161. Some sort of special, I think out of NYS&W at Little Ferry.

It's an alternate schedule of Q161 that runs every week - nothing special.

Thanks.
Getting bored, looking for something special<g>

No changes. They go by east /west direction. Odd numbers westbound and even numbers eastbound.

Q161 is going north then west to Chicago. Yet you can see the general freights Q410, Q418, Q434 coming north also but they are considered eastbound because they started off in a location that looks somewhat west of their destination.

Q410 comes from Florida (or Georgia???) and is headed towards Massachusetts thus it is headed eastbound.

Just passing on what I've learned from others over the years.

Vincent

zablocki22 wrote:No changes. They go by east /west direction. Odd numbers westbound and even numbers eastbound.

Q161 is going north then west to Chicago.

This is correct. Northbound/Eastbound trains are usually even numbered and westbound/southbound odd. As mentioned Northbounds out of New Jersey have odd numbered symbols because once they reach Selkirk they are westbound to Buffalo & Chicago. The trains southbound on the RiverLine that have even numbered symbols are such because they are eastbound from Chicago, Cleveland, Buffalo etc until they hit the River line.

By the way, same is true for Amtrak trains on the Hudson Line.

zablocki22 wrote:Q410 comes from Florida (or Georgia???) and is headed towards Massachusetts thus it is headed eastbound.

Q410 if I remember correctly was from either Atlanta or Savannah, Ga to Selkirk. The only train that used to run straight from Florida to Boston was Q174 from Jacksonville to Worcester. This was a van train, primarily UPS, but was done away with a few years ago. I believe they still run this train but only a few times a week and under the symbol of L172. Any freight traffic heading east that may come up on Q410 would be re-classified in Selkirk and put on an eatbound freight since Q410 terminates in Selkirk and the entire train is humped there.

CSX Conductor wrote:

zablocki22 wrote:No changes. They go by east /west direction. Odd numbers westbound and even numbers eastbound.

Q161 is going north then west to Chicago.

This is correct. Northbound/Eastbound trains are usually even numbered and westbound/southbound odd. As mentioned Northbounds out of New Jersey have odd numbered symbols because once they reach Selkirk they are westbound to Buffalo & Chicago. The trains southbound on the RiverLine that have even numbered symbols are such because they are eastbound from Chicago, Cleveland, Buffalo etc until they hit the River line.

By the way, same is true for Amtrak trains on the Hudson Line.

zablocki22 wrote:Q410 comes from Florida (or Georgia???) and is headed towards Massachusetts thus it is headed eastbound.

Q410 if I remember correctly was from either Atlanta or Savannah, Ga to Selkirk. The only train that used to run straight from Florida to Boston was Q174 from Jacksonville to Worcester. This was a van train, primarily UPS, but was done away with a few years ago. I believe they still run this train but only a few times a week and under the symbol of L172. Any freight traffic heading east that may come up on Q410 would be re-classified in Selkirk and put on an eatbound freight since Q410 terminates in Selkirk and the entire train is humped there.

I was in Folkston on June 16-20 (left before noon on the 20th). Q174 ran every day through there in the afternoon, so this train is still running. There were no trains symbolled L172 through there that week. Q172 ran Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday (16-18th). Q171 went down every morning between 6-7.

CSX Conductor wrote:

zablocki22 wrote:No changes. They go by east /west direction. Odd numbers westbound and even numbers eastbound.

Q161 is going north then west to Chicago.

This is correct. Northbound/Eastbound trains are usually even numbered and westbound/southbound odd. As mentioned Northbounds out of New Jersey have odd numbered symbols because once they reach Selkirk they are westbound to Buffalo & Chicago. The trains southbound on the RiverLine that have even numbered symbols are such because they are eastbound from Chicago, Cleveland, Buffalo etc until they hit the River line.

By the way, same is true for Amtrak trains on the Hudson Line.

zablocki22 wrote:Q410 comes from Florida (or Georgia???) and is headed towards Massachusetts thus it is headed eastbound.

Q410 if I remember correctly was from either Atlanta or Savannah, Ga to Selkirk. The only train that used to run straight from Florida to Boston was Q174 from Jacksonville to Worcester. This was a van train, primarily UPS, but was done away with a few years ago. I believe they still run this train but only a few times a week and under the symbol of L172. Any freight traffic heading east that may come up on Q410 would be re-classified in Selkirk and put on an eatbound freight since Q410 terminates in Selkirk and the entire train is humped there.

Not specifically CSX related, but Downeasters are an exception to this rule, as are the northside commuter trains in Boston.

I've heard the "L" trains recently around North Bergen. I think they sometimes make a pickup at NYS&W, but may be mistaken about that.

Are there any trains that go north on the River Line, and continue directly to the Springfield or Boston area without being reclassified at SK?
I know there is a wye going east, but doesn't look like it gets a lot of use.
Many years ago I was up there chasing the Circus train, and it did use the east wye.

FW

I would like to know how CSX give names for their freight trains. As I understood, first letters means area (L, Q), numbers means westbound/northbound (odds) and eastbound/southbound (evens). So what means Q439-02? Q is area (is anywhere available list od areas?), 439 means westbound train - is 439 order or what? Includes this number priority? And what means -02? It's order for this day?

richardspitzer wrote:I would like to know how CSX give names for their freight trains. As I understood, first letters means area (L, Q), numbers means westbound/northbound (odds) and eastbound/southbound (evens). So what means Q439-02? Q is area (is anywhere available list od areas?), 439 means westbound train - is 439 order or what? Includes this number priority? And what means -02? It's order for this day?

The primary designator for all CSX Merchandise, Automotive or Intermodal trains is the Q - Q439+2 digit date of origin.
A alternative schedule, for say 439, would be designated L439+2 digit date of origin
A Rerouted schedule, for say 439, would be designated R439+2 digit date of origin
A additional section of 439 would be designated S439+2 digit date of origin

Each scheduled train has a scheduled route and scheduled 'work' to perform on that route. 439 is a schedule from Selkirk, NY to Hamlet, NC with a scheduled set off and pick up in Baltimore and a scheduled pick up in Richmond and Collier. If it were to be scheduled to have a Philadelphia set off and pick up one day a week - it would operate as L439 on that day. If the train were to be operated from Selkirk to Buffalo to Cleveland to New Castle to Cumberland to Richmond and then on to Hamlet - it would be operated as R439 for the time during which the train is to be operated on this reroute.

CSX has territories that operate as East-West and other territories that operate as North-South. As a practical matter - former Chessie & ConRail territories are East-West; Former Seaboard territories are North-South. The even-odd train numbering can get turned around when you have a train that goes from North-South to East-West - to wit. Q401 & Q415 originate at Cumberland and operate East until they get on the RF&P Sub at Anacostia, DC where they become Southbound trains for the balance of their trips to Richmond and beyond. Their counter points Q400 & Q416 originate at Rocky Mount and operate North to Anacostia where they become Westbounds to Cumberland.

As a general matter:
Q (L, R or S) 001 to 199 are Intermodal trains
Q (L, R or S) 200 to 299 are Automotive trains (auto racks or auto parts - loads & empties)
Q (L, R or S) 300 to 399 are Merchandise trains operating E-W on the Eastern part of the System
Q (L, R or S) 400 to 499 are Merchandise trains operating N-S on the Eastern part of the System
Q (L, R or S) 500 to 599 are Merchandise trains operating E-W on the Western part of the System
Q (L, R or S) 600 to 699 are Merchandise trains operating N-S on the Western part of the System
Q (L, R or S) 700 to 799 special commodity trains operating all over the system (Juice Train is Q740 for example)

N T U & V are the prefix for various characteristics of Coal Trains
G is the prefix for Grain trains - both loads & empties
K is the prefix for Bulk Commodity trains other than Coal & Grain - both loads & empties
E is the prefix for empty hopper trains system wide (note some empty hopper trains operate round trip under their loaded N T U & V train designations)

Divisional local freights & road switchers use
A B C D F H J M O as there prefix with the regular assignments being in the 700-899 range; extra assignment in the 900-999 range.

Regular and extra passenger movements have the P prefix.

Special trains of many varieties are given a W prefix

Extra trains have the X prefix.

Foreign Line trackage rights trains are operated with a Z prefix

Hope this sheds a little light on what, to a outsider, appears to be the madness of the CSX Train Naming nomenclature

Thank you very much! Now I'm understand it much better!

I would say that the Q500 series are more north-south than east-west trains out here. On the Toledo Sub (ex B&O from Toledo to Cincinnati) there are no 600 series Q trains that run on it. The true N-S Trains are all in the 500 series (506, 507 & 512 for example). Likewise on the Garrett/Willard subs (ex B&O from Willard to Chicago) the true E-W trains are concentrated in the Q300's. (Mostly in the 380's and above) Of course with junctions like Fostoria & Deshler, there will be some trains that vary for this. For example Q508,509 & Q324 all operate between Chicago & Toledo (Stanley yard) via Deshler. Q500 & 501 are Chicago-Cincinnati Trains that operate via Deshler for example.

mmi16 wrote:

richardspitzer wrote:I would like to know how CSX give names for their freight trains. As I understood, first letters means area (L, Q), numbers means westbound/northbound (odds) and eastbound/southbound (evens). So what means Q439-02? Q is area (is anywhere available list od areas?), 439 means westbound train - is 439 order or what? Includes this number priority? And what means -02? It's order for this day?

The primary designator for all CSX Merchandise, Automotive or Intermodal trains is the Q - Q439+2 digit date of origin.
A alternative schedule, for say 439, would be designated L439+2 digit date of origin
A Rerouted schedule, for say 439, would be designated R439+2 digit date of origin
A additional section of 439 would be designated S439+2 digit date of origin

Each scheduled train has a scheduled route and scheduled 'work' to perform on that route. 439 is a schedule from Selkirk, NY to Hamlet, NC with a scheduled set off and pick up in Baltimore and a scheduled pick up in Richmond and Collier. If it were to be scheduled to have a Philadelphia set off and pick up one day a week - it would operate as L439 on that day. If the train were to be operated from Selkirk to Buffalo to Cleveland to New Castle to Cumberland to Richmond and then on to Hamlet - it would be operated as R439 for the time during which the train is to be operated on this reroute.

CSX has territories that operate as East-West and other territories that operate as North-South. As a practical matter - former Chessie & ConRail territories are East-West; Former Seaboard territories are North-South. The even-odd train numbering can get turned around when you have a train that goes from North-South to East-West - to wit. Q401 & Q415 originate at Cumberland and operate East until they get on the RF&P Sub at Anacostia, DC where they become Southbound trains for the balance of their trips to Richmond and beyond. Their counter points Q400 & Q416 originate at Rocky Mount and operate North to Anacostia where they become Westbounds to Cumberland.

As a general matter:
Q (L, R or S) 001 to 199 are Intermodal trains
Q (L, R or S) 200 to 299 are Automotive trains (auto racks or auto parts - loads & empties)
Q (L, R or S) 300 to 399 are Merchandise trains operating E-W on the Eastern part of the System
Q (L, R or S) 400 to 499 are Merchandise trains operating N-S on the Eastern part of the System
Q (L, R or S) 500 to 599 are Merchandise trains operating E-W on the Western part of the System
Q (L, R or S) 600 to 699 are Merchandise trains operating N-S on the Western part of the System
Q (L, R or S) 700 to 799 special commodity trains operating all over the system (Juice Train is Q740 for example)

N T U & V are the prefix for various characteristics of Coal Trains
G is the prefix for Grain trains - both loads & empties
K is the prefix for Bulk Commodity trains other than Coal & Grain - both loads & empties
E is the prefix for empty hopper trains system wide (note some empty hopper trains operate round trip under their loaded N T U & V train designations)

Divisional local freights & road switchers use
A B C D F H J M O as there prefix with the regular assignments being in the 700-899 range; extra assignment in the 900-999 range.

Regular and extra passenger movements have the P prefix.

Special trains of many varieties are given a W prefix

Extra trains have the X prefix.

Foreign Line trackage rights trains are operated with a Z prefix

Hope this sheds a little light on what, to a outsider, appears to be the madness of the CSX Train Naming nomenclature

Q-410 - Waycross, GA to Selkirk, 409 returns. Q-438, 439 Hamlet, NC to Selkirk and return.

.....and the Q174 is now L-O34 (I'm 99.99% sure of that).

One thing to remember - Schedules are adjusted weekly in response to a number of factors - MofW curfew work on a trains route, Change in traffic patterns, Connecting carrier changes, Divisional request for specific operating matters - and for 101 other 'valid' reasons.

One thing I have noted, the basic framework of the scheduled network was laid out in the early 2000's and was identified as The One Plan. It was build around the crew hours of service law that was in effect at that time (8 hours was full rest and crews with sufficient remaining HOS time could be recalled to duty after a 4 hour respite from service). The Hours of Service Law has changed and the Plan really has not been adjusted to account for the required 10 hours undisturbed rest - which works out to 12 hours when the crew is not instructed to show up on their rest and must be notified by calling to go on duty (most crews receive a nominal 2 hour notice of their need to be on duty).

My observation of several territories indicate that when operating scheduled trains from the home terminal of the crew base, when these crews get to their away from home terminal after making a normal run On Time, they will not be rested to handle the schedules for trains returning to their home terminal when they are operating On Time.