Cross County Metro

You can see from the map where the CCM would run. Most of its route is along existing railroad ROW, the main exception being the King of Prussia area. There is another project called the Chester Valley Trail which runs parallel or in the ROW, and part of the trail over I-76 has already been constructed.

Please post any additional information.

there was extensive discussion on this topic earlier:
http://railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.ph ... 00833b9d72. IMO it is absurd, a way for a few of the suburbs to try and get everyone else to dig them out of the transportation nightmare they've created for themselves by creating all of the sprawl along the 202 corridor with essentially no foresight for a time when it would become completely jammed with cars.

The only useful part of this dream would be in the KoP area and that is exactly where the ROW doesn't exist and would have to be purchased (expensive) and grade separated (expensive) from the mess that exists there now.

The CCM is essentially the Trenton Cut-Off which is owned by a freight railroad (i forget which) and has been single tracked. Most of that ROW is close to, but not in, a destination.

While KOP mall is a fact of life, the buisness park really ought to have never been built and there is no good reason to build a commuter railroad to serve something like that just so that the companies that located themselves out there don't have to pay the price for that stupidity.

Montgomery County needs to get used to the idea that KoP is not nor ever will be the center of the region.

I wish the idea for this project would just be shelved permanently. It will never happen. It connects nothing to nothing. Sure, a lot of trips nowadays are technically "cross-county", but this project would do nothing to benefit those commuters. Who in their right mind is going to take a train from Downingtown to KofP when it can be driven in probably half the time. Additionally, when you get to KofP, you would still need some type of bus service to your final destination.

NS connects to the line at Frazier and I think there's only 2 trains per day that go between the steel mills at Conshohocken and Coatesville.

jsc wrote: The CCM is essentially the Trenton Cut-Off which is owned by a freight railroad (i forget which) and has been single tracked. Most of that ROW is close to, but not in, a destination.

The cutoff is owned by NS and sees a handful of trains a day, most running between Morrisville and Earnest where the line connects to Septa's R6 and then the NS main to Reading, Allentown and Harrisburg. While the line has been single tracked, the double wide ROW still exists.

Lucius Kwok wrote:[Image removed for space.] You can see from the map where the CCM would run. Most of its route is along existing railroad ROW, the main exception being the King of Prussia area.

Specifically, Montgomery County wants the line routed through Norristown, so it would deviate from the Trenton Cut-Off at Mogees, follow the existing R6 to Norristown, cross the river, then follow a new alignment from near Valley Forge Towers across the turnpike, between the two malls, and run just east of South Gulph Road until it rejoins the Cut-Off.

Here is my idea for the Cross County:

The other ideas and segments ignore the ROW and its charactertics, , accessability, land uses, costs and realism. In the olden days this route was a vital freight artery. It can be a vital passenger corridor in the future. It does not make any sense to turn this into a transit way from a railway given these attributes. These guys at 1234 and some of you nostalgia buffs have it all screwed up.

This should be run as Trenton - Thorndale, electric commuter rail line like NJT and SEPTA regional rail. Park and Ride lots (maybe a few transit centers), and transfer stations (e.g. R5, rt. 100, R3) should be built. Through trains can be also run from NYC to Harrisburg as well stopping at local stops. There is a lot of business and demand for commuting along the 276/202 corridor; imagine going to K of P from Downington or NYC to Wayne/Route 202 for a weird, biotech-related meeting...imagine that. There are a lot of TSM vans and other services in this growing area to help facilitate access to stations. Freight service can be integrated and grown if needed.

Most importantly:

1) This plan is consistent with NJT's Service (contract it out?).

2) This plan is consistent with PA's plans for the Harrisburg Line.

3) Intersects new Route 100 service and raidial regional rail lines (possible juntions?) at several locations.

4) Provides rail service that is truly rapid, regional, inter-regional, and compatable.

5) Works best with existing geometry and conditions (cost$$$) of former "Trenton Cut-Off" and improves economic vitality by providing more capacity for freight.


As for my SVM...that's a different story but it should be a separate project from Route 100 extension, CCM, and rail service to points west of Valley Forge/Norristown. Do the math....who's going to take a streetcar and sit through every stop from Bala or Manyunk to Perkiomen or Reading...that's absurd. Diesel rail plus some light rail where the R6 travels today is the way forwards. Turn off the Smart Growth slide shows on light rail (SEPTA).

Hopefully the gov or someone will stop by and demonstrate how to phase a project, show up on the FTA's New Starts list for the first time since 1984 (new vs. refurbishment fest), and what an HOV or Carpool Lane can do for motorists and bus riders....Wake Up Philly!

Regards,

-Exiled in the Pacific Northwest

Lucius Kwok wrote:You can see from the map where the CCM would run. Most of its route is along existing railroad ROW, the main exception being the King of Prussia area. There is another project called the Chester Valley Trail which runs parallel or in the ROW, and part of the trail over I-76 has already been constructed.

Please post any additional information.

The 12-Year Transportation Plan issued by the Pennsylvania Transportation Commission and approved earlier this month makes no mention of the Cross County Metro, but does make mention of Schuylkill Valley, the new Paoli Station, and Elwyn-Wawa.

Take that for what you will, but it sounds like Cross County may officially be dead...[/url]

This plan is consistent with NJT's Service (contract it out?)

More with Amtrak service. Not to mention that Keystone service is already under contract to Amtrak as is.

Is PM whwere you would put the AMWAY -er, I mean, uh, AMTRAK station?

You know it would suck if the package didn't include an AMTRAK bypass route just to diss Philly. Since people with more money live along the PATP, Noo Yawk has to be viewed as the ultimate destination of the CCM. Otherwise the project is doomed.

Stations with massive multi-story parking and full-service ticketing will be integral to a paying programme.

Another thought: the ROW would do well as three tracks - one dedicated to Acela - grade AMWAY service.

(Wanna buy some?) :>

Your Thoughts?
Garry

Like I said in my first post, there's no market for this service. Like someone is really going to commute from Thorndale to their job at the Great Valley Corporate Center? Or take a shopping trip to the KofP Mall from Downingtown? Not a chance. Sure there's a lot of jobs and companies located near the line, but certainly in most cirumstances there's a need for additional transportation. Once you get off in Great Valley or KofP, then what? Wait around for a bus? It's too spread out....there's no true center in KofP or Great Valley.

I agree, nobody is going to go from Downingtown to K of P in large numbers. But it's better served as a regional rather than a transit market with commuter trains that take people to NYC, Harrisburg, Ft. Washington, Thorndale, K of P (Route 100), R3, R5 and some commuter vans or buses. The problem with the current idea is that is too mass transit and it is relying too much on transfers to far away places.

It should have fewer stops, regional rail services and connections, park-and-rides, etc. Since the path is there and the connections can be made, a new rail service that serves this market effectively would do well, but not a transit line. There's a big difference. It should be an extension of NJT's Penn Line and Amtrak's Keystone otherwise it's a joke.

Why should it be an extention of the Keystone Line. 30th Street Station is the second busiest stop on the line, why would you bypass it. Easily half of the people that ride west of Philadelphia either embark or disembark at 30th street. There is no reason why Amtrak should divert trains along a ROW that it does not own when they already own the Main Line and NEC and have a very busy station there. If some other agency wants to run it fine (personally I think there are a lot of area projects which have a lot more merit) but Amtrak should in no way be involved with this.

Sean@Temple

Your Thoughts?

My thoughts are that cheap shots at Amtrak are worthless and not to the point. They are even more underfunded than SEPTA.