Connection time needed at 69th St Terminal?

I just completed my move to Drexel Hill and will be combining driving with taking SEPTA for the next week or 2 to decide if I want to switch solely to using SEPTA for commuting. The ideal schedule has me making a 4 minute connection from the 102 to the 100 at 69th St. Do I have any chance of making that? Is the 102 usually on time in the AM rush?

My gut tells me I'll need to just set the alarm earlier because 4 minutes seems to tight.

Thanks,

Bob

Even in the "good ol' days" when vehicles ran on Red Arrow time instead of SEPTA sort-of-time, 4 minutes would be cutting it too close. Remember that you have to make it from the trolley bays through the terminal to the 100 platform. That's at least 2 minutes, and will be more if you have to swim upstream against a crowd emptying from the El.

Also, if you're not familiar with the system, my standard rant,rant,rant about fare payment:

NEVER, EVER PAY THE $2 CASH FARE.

For a short-term trial you'll want to stock up on tokens ($1.30 each compared to the 2-buck "sucker" fare) and plenty of quarters and dimes for the transfer that you'll buy when you board the first vehicle. You'll also need dollars if you're taking the 100 beyond Bryn Mawr where the second zone kicks in. Unfortunately I don't remember if the 102 also has a second zone.

For longer-term use you should get out your calculator and see if a pass would work. The Transpass might be your best place to start because it is good for one boarding anywhere. That means you could use it once on the 102 and again on the 100 w/o paying a transfer charge. The only extra would be any zone charges. You do have to do the math each month, though, 'cause depending on your travel plans there's no guarantee that you'll break even with a pass instead of tokens.

In general for a trip such as yours the Cross County pass is more expensive and a TrailPass is much more. The TrailPass's cost is based on the higher-priced Regional Rail fare structure, although the helpful people at SEPTA will be glad to recommend that you buy one for riding the trolley .... uh, I think I'll "pass".

JeffK wrote:Even in the "good ol' days" when vehicles ran on Red Arrow time instead of SEPTA sort-of-time, 4 minutes would be cutting it too close. Remember that you have to make it from the trolley bays through the terminal to the 100 platform. That's at least 2 minutes, and will be more if you have to swim upstream against a crowd emptying from the El.

That's not factoring in whether or not the trolley has an extended wait at Lansdowne Av. IMHO, that's long been a choke point for Media and Sharon Hill trolleys.

For a short-term trial you'll want to stock up on tokens ($1.30 each compared to the 2-buck "sucker" fare) and plenty of quarters and dimes for the transfer that you'll buy when you board the first vehicle. You'll also need dollars if you're taking the 100 beyond Bryn Mawr where the second zone kicks in. Unfortunately I don't remember if the 102 also has a second zone.

The 102 is a one-zone ride all the way to Sharon Hill.

ctrabs74 wrote:That's not factoring in whether or not the trolley has an extended wait at Lansdowne Av. IMHO, that's long been a choke point for Media and Sharon Hill trolleys.

I rode the 101 for a number of years, and that stop always frustrated me & my fellow riders. I understand that Lansdowne Ave is an important road and that's why they don't give the trolley the automatic right-of-way that it gets at smaller stops, but it's a greater inconvenience for all the people on the trolley to wait for 5 minutes than it is for all the people on the road to wait 15 seconds. Let the trolleys go, I say.

The best failed connection I love is the 11:50pm 100 car from Norristown that arrives at 69th St at 12:15. I think SEPTA may have recently modified the schedule or something, but the last MFL for Frankford used to leave around that time (timetable says 12:11am). Anyway, I tried making that connection several times, and you literally had to RUN from the 100 to the MFL, which isnt far, to try and make that last train. Needless to say, on several occasions, as I JUMPED down the stairs with the other 40 people, the doors on the El would close, we'd all bang on the El and it would pull away without us.

Now why on earth does SEPTA do that? Another minute would have saved us all a trip on the Blue Owl. They can't send the 100 out 5 min earlier? Or hold the El for 5? Its like they want to piss us off! Only once did I manage to make that connection by sticking my arm in the closing doors and jumping down 2 flights of stairs.

I'd love to smack Faye Moore with one of those "Never Run for Trains" signs and tell her we have to run because SEPTA doesen't coordinate transfers...at all!

I've got a stash of tokens to use for now (if I can figure out what box they are packed in). Paying with tokens will be about $96/month when you figure in the transfer and zone charge (1.30 token, .60 transfer, .50 zone). That's figuring 20 working days per month. The down side with paying per trip is that I have to pay for the transfer to the 95 in case I miss the company shuttle for some reason.

I calculated the transpass to cost about $90/month as I'll need to pay the zone charge on the 100. I doubt I'll be going into the city much so the cross county pass looks to be my best bet. If I'm not mistaken I can get a transfer for the el for rare occasions when I need to go into the city.

I'll give SEPTA a shot tomorrow if I can find my tokens.

Thanks,

Bob

Umblehoon wrote:

ctrabs74 wrote:That's not factoring in whether or not the trolley has an extended wait at Lansdowne Av. IMHO, that's long been a choke point for Media and Sharon Hill trolleys.

I rode the 101 for a number of years, and that stop always frustrated me & my fellow riders. I understand that Lansdowne Ave is an important road and that's why they don't give the trolley the automatic right-of-way that it gets at smaller stops, but it's a greater inconvenience for all the people on the trolley to wait for 5 minutes than it is for all the people on the road to wait 15 seconds. Let the trolleys go, I say.

That location on Lansdowne Ave. has two high schools, and I suspect that the "powers that be" have simply opted to hold the trolleys, rather than suffer the intense criticism that they would suffer if there was an accident involving a trolley and a school bus, or other vehicle carrying students. This kind of criticism was one of the factors in the bustitution of the West Chester trolley line back in the early 1950's.

sccaflagger74 wrote:If I'm not mistaken I can get a transfer for the el for rare occasions when I need to go into the city.

That's true, but you should try to find something in writing that shows what the charge is, in case the cashier isn't familiar with the transfer policies. The C-C pass is rarely used for travel into the city and it's possible they wouldn't know the rules. There was a time when I worked in the 'burbs using a C-C pass, and I don't want to think about a couple of clashes I had with cashiers and operators who insisted that the pass was invalid in the city.

Memo to Faye M. & Co.: - you shouldn't need Algebra II and a User Manual to figure out how much it costs to ride a bus or trolley!!

walt wrote: That location on Lansdowne Ave. has two high schools, and I suspect that the "powers that be" have simply opted to hold the trolleys, rather than suffer the intense criticism that they would suffer if there was an accident involving a trolley and a school bus, or other vehicle carrying students. This kind of criticism was one of the factors in the bustitution of the West Chester trolley line back in the early 1950's.

Actually, you could argue that there are 3, if you include UD High. If a car stops for the red light, though, it won't be hit, so the danger to kids isn't that great. Moreover, a LOT of kids ride that trolley, so it could even be looked upon as a benefit for them.

JeffK wrote: That's true, but you should try to find something in writing that shows what the charge is, in case the cashier isn't familiar with the transfer policies. The C-C pass is rarely used for travel into the city and it's possible they wouldn't know the rules. There was a time when I worked in the 'burbs using a C-C pass, and I don't want to think about a couple of clashes I had with cashiers and operators who insisted that the pass was invalid in the city.

Memo to Faye M. & Co.: - you shouldn't need Algebra II and a User Manual to figure out how much it costs to ride a bus or trolley!!

Couldn't I just buy the transfer from the trolley operator when I board the 102? Of course that won't help me when I'm leaving the city.

SEPTA really needs to simplify the fare system. I don't ride SEPTA often but I'm not really a novice transit rider either. I've managed to get around DC, Boston, London, Paris, and Amsterdam with no problems. Imagine how confused someone who never rode a transit vehicle in their life would be trying to figure things out. I guess SEPTA really banks on people overpaying. At least there is a day pass so tourists don't need to be so confused.

Umblehoon wrote:
Actually, you could argue that there are 3, if you include UD High. If a car stops for the red light, though, it won't be hit, so the danger to kids isn't that great. Moreover, a LOT of kids ride that trolley, so it could even be looked upon as a benefit for them.

Actually, the school I had forgotten about was Prendegrast ( SP?)
If high school students ( or anyone else) always stopped for red lights, there'd be no accidents of this type at crossings or intersections. When they do happen, people tend to blame the trolley, rather than the driver of the auto, regardless of what actually happened. This is what happened with the West Chester Line as an increasing number of drivers attempted to beat the trolleys to the crossings. I do agree--- the trolley at Lansdowne Ave has always been heavily used by the high school students. The Red Arrow even ran school trippers on those two lines.

walt wrote:When they do happen, people tend to blame the trolley, rather than the driver of the auto, regardless of what actually happened.

I hate this society.

sccaflagger74 wrote:I've managed to get around DC, Boston, London, Paris, and Amsterdam with no problems.

And I can add LA, Atlanta, Toronto, Montréal, Madrid, Stockholm and Dresden to that list.

I guess SEPTA really banks on people overpaying. At least there is a day pass so tourists don't need to be so confused.

The first statement is not just an observation - based on what I know from talking to insiders it is true. The second is valid only if the tourists are informed about the pass' existence. I've more than once been at a so-called Information Center where the person behind the desk solemnly told a visitor "just put $2 in the farebox every time you ride..."

Umblehoon wrote: Actually, you could argue that there are 3, if you include UD High. If a car stops for the red light, though, it won't be hit, so the danger to kids isn't that great. Moreover, a LOT of kids ride that trolley, so it could even be looked upon as a benefit for them.

I'm not familiar with that area, so are there railroad signals and gates at this crossing? I know that SEPTA in its FY 2005 Capital Budget (p. 45) has $2,755,000 budgeted for installing such warning devices at 12 intersections along the Media/Sharon Hill Line in Delaware County.

It's only regulated by traffic lights; there are no barriers or full-scale railroad crossing signals.