connecting commuter rail lines

May have been tried for Chicago-Milwaukee service since the North Shore died. Metra to the Wisconsin state line. Need similar Milwaukee Road WiDoT from Kenosha & north. Maybe both could run trains to Six Flags or other points in Lake County. Then bring back Electroliners for thru Chicago Milwaukee service. If the ROW is still there may provide better local service than the Amtrak ex MILW route.

The main point is to set up new commuter rail agency in the next state to provide service to the next big city. Isolated lines like the Music City or WeGo Star isn't included. Maybe in a distant future you could do Nashville to Chattanooga then have a GA agency do Chattanooga to Atlanta.

Alot of the north shore ROW still exists, up the the milw airport.
Then a new north shore would have to follow an existing freight alignment to get to the multimodal station.

Might add a Kenosha station on the Hiawatha. Kenosha has a larger population than Racine (which has a station
at Sturtevant).

Lots of open space on the west side of Kenosha for a new station along the line.

eolesen wrote: ↑Tue Aug 17, 2021 12:01 pm Nope, fully aware you were trying to look at heavy commuter rail, but that hasn't been the growth area over the last 20 years. Light rail has. And the failure or reluctance of local transit agencies planning light rail to integrate with Amtrak says to me that they don't see Amtrak providing a whole lot of value for multi-modal travel.

Then make a new thread titling it Connecting Light Rail Trains.
This thread is titled Connecting Computer Lines, which is why I have limited my discussion to just Commuter Trains.

I'm not sure anyone would like to ride a light rail train averaging speeds of less than 30 mph for almost 3 hours over the 80 miles between Austin and San Antonio, or for almost 4 hours over the 106 miles between Baltimore to Philadelphia.

The plain fact remains using light rail trains between cities where faster commuter trains are more appropriate is so stupid.

Here's another idea, why not replace all Amtrak, commuter, and any other intercity trains running all across America with light rail TRAMS.

electricron wrote: ↑Thu Sep 30, 2021 6:46 pm

eolesen wrote: ↑Tue Aug 17, 2021 12:01 pm Nope, fully aware you were trying to look at heavy commuter rail, but that hasn't been the growth area over the last 20 years. Light rail has. And the failure or reluctance of local transit agencies planning light rail to integrate with Amtrak says to me that they don't see Amtrak providing a whole lot of value for multi-modal travel.

Then make a new thread titling it Connecting Light Rail Trains.
This thread is titled Connecting Computer Lines, which is why I have limited my discussion to just Commuter Trains.

I'm not sure anyone would like to ride a light rail train averaging speeds of less than 30 mph for almost 3 hours over the 80 miles between Austin and San Antonio, or for almost 4 hours over the 106 miles between Baltimore to Philadelphia.

The plain fact remains using light rail trains between cities where faster commuter trains are more appropriate is so stupid.

Here's another idea, why not replace all Amtrak, commuter, and any other intercity trains running all across America with light rail TRAMS.

Agreed, even if it was "heavy rail"/subway cars. I cannot see a subway going from DC to BWI Airport with stops along the way that are really covered by the MARC commuter rail system.

#1581478 by GWoodle
Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:11 pm
May have been tried for Chicago-Milwaukee service since the North Shore died.

Years ago (1968-70) I was stationed at the US Navy Great Lakes Station in Evanston. We regularily rode the CNW into both Chicago and Milwaukee. It was safe, fast amd reasonably priced

I think the underlying point of connecting commuter rail lines is to make a better inter-city or inter-regional product than what the Northeast Regional currently is. We all know where Acela should be, in the HSR category, but for now it's a slightly faster option in some cases that can run as late as the Regionals and is more than double the cost. Nearly all the frequent rail service in the U.S. is too expensive. There's no reason for same-day Regional tickets to be so expensive, and I think that's why people want to connect the commuter rails. Now you get into the area of making the infrastructure public like highways and airports...

daybeers wrote: ↑Fri Oct 01, 2021 9:30 pm I think the underlying point of connecting commuter rail lines is to make a better inter-city or inter-regional product than what the Northeast Regional currently is. We all know where Acela should be, in the HSR category, but for now it's a slightly faster option in some cases that can run as late as the Regionals and is more than double the cost. Nearly all the frequent rail service in the U.S. is too expensive. There's no reason for same-day Regional tickets to be so expensive, and I think that's why people want to connect the commuter rails. Now you get into the area of making the infrastructure public like highways and airports...

And you are correct, passengers want cheaper options. But Amtrak can not provide their services as cheap as the commuter rail operators. Different engineers and conductors salaries, different food service attendants salaries, different % of subsidies, different comfort levels for the seats.

If we go through the process to extend all the commuter rail trains so they meet one another, undercutting the fares Amtrak can charge, why have Amtrak provide any services at all on the NEC?

electricron wrote: ↑Fri Oct 01, 2021 11:29 pm And you are correct, passengers want cheaper options. But Amtrak can not provide their services as cheap as the commuter rail operators. Different engineers and conductors salaries, different food service attendants salaries, different % of subsidies, different comfort levels for the seats.

If we go through the process to extend all the commuter rail trains so they meet one another, undercutting the fares Amtrak can charge, why have Amtrak provide any services at all on the NEC?

One word: Speed.

I traced this in posts back, using the NEC as the example, DC to Boston. In short, the 8 hour travel time on the regional would basically double taking extended commuter rail... and with no food service (not on the MARC, SEPTA, NJ Transit, Metro North, Shore Line East, or MBTA), you're going to be very very hungry.

Now if you're between Amtrak stops and on a local stop, you might as well hit the local and transfer to Amtrak at the next shared stop.

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Fri Oct 01, 2021 3:26 pm

Agreed, I keep seeing requests to run metro rail to bwi, makes no sense.
Marc will be faster, and cheaper to expand service on that , then build out wmata.

electricron wrote:

eolesen wrote: ↑Tue Aug 17, 2021 12:01 pm Nope, fully aware you were trying to look at heavy commuter rail, but that hasn't been the growth area over the last 20 years. Light rail has. And the failure or reluctance of local transit agencies planning light rail to integrate with Amtrak says to me that they don't see Amtrak providing a whole lot of value for multi-modal travel.

Then make a new thread titling it Connecting Light Rail Trains.
This thread is titled Connecting Computer Lines, which is why I have limited my discussion to just Commuter Trains.

I'm not sure anyone would like to ride a light rail train averaging speeds of less than 30 mph for almost 3 hours over the 80 miles between Austin and San Antonio, or for almost 4 hours over the 106 miles between Baltimore to Philadelphia.

The plain fact remains using light rail trains between cities where faster commuter trains are more appropriate is so stupid.

Here's another idea, why not replace all Amtrak, commuter, and any other intercity trains running all across America with light rail TRAMS.

You're the one who went down the rabbit hole of "Amtrak interconnects almost all of the train transit agencies in the lower 48 states."

I pointed out a flaw in your argument... three major cities with no heavy commuter rail but with extensive light rail and no interchange.

Nobody is suggesting running light rail between cities, but it sure would make more sense to have those systems integrated with intercity rail than it would to be gap filling commuter rail lines end to end...

Didn't see Metrolink and Coaster mentioned as a poor man's way to go from the far north edges of Los Angeles all the way to San Diego entirely by commuter rail... throw in light rail and it takes you almost to the border in Tijuana.

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RW and Everyone: Instead of again quoting the recent postings concerning Baltimore-Washington rail service
I will bring up something that I recall from the early/mid 1970s concerning the long-term future plans of both
the WMATA and Maryland's MTA which was a heavy rail line extension of both systems that would "meet" at BWI
Airport therefore offering connecting rapid transit service between both cities. The WMATA would extend either
the Green or Orange Lines from Greenbelt or New Carrollton to BWI. The heavy-rail Baltimore Metro was to have
a southwest line to BWI Airport when it was originally being planned. For the record 30-50 years later into the
future (to our current time period) was when this additional WMATA Metro line extension may have been built
at some point after the completion of the originally planned 101 mile Metro system.

Back in the middle 1970s local train service between Baltimore and Washington was minimal. Penn Central and
then Conrail ran two peak-hour weekday trains from Baltimore Penn Station south AM, north PM using a small
group of MP54 MU cars. B&O ran four trains during peak hours from Camden Station (three south to Washington
with one north to Baltimore AM, three north to Baltimore with one south to Washington PM weekdays).

Maryland DOT began to directly subsidize both routes beginning in 1978-79 at which point more local train BAL-
WAS began to be offered - expanding the Conrail-operated service to four runs similar to the B&O service level
(three BAL-WAS and one WAS-BAL AM Peak; three WAS-BAL and one BAL-WAS PM Peak) on weekdays. Maryland
DOT replaced the aging MP54 MU cars with leased Jersey Arrow Two cars. Another train service that was added
at the time was Amtrak's "Chesapeake" between Philadelphia and Washington which ran with leased Arrow MU
cars and was listed on the Baltimore-Washington orange colored card timetable issued by Conrail and MDOT.

The Baltimore-Washington rail service began to grow steadily over time evolving to today's Penn and Camden
Lines. Another interesting factor was the tremendous growth in the Maryland counties in between both cities
since the 1960s and 1970s - with the two metropolitan suburban areas now "overlapping" each other.

Sand Box John - who regularly posts in the DC-MD-VA Forum - may remember more about the future heavy rail
rapid transit plans for WMATA and the Baltimore Metro system - which would have just one heavy-rail line built.
Baltimore was originally planning lines north-south, east-west, southwest-northeast and northwest-southeast.
The north-south line became the Light Rail route between Hunt Valley, Timonium and BWI Airport as we know.
The original Baltimore Metro car was to resemble the Metro 1000 series car in 1970s era artist renderings.

Baltimore-Washington passenger rail service has seen an interesting evolution in the past 50 years...MACTRAXX

eolesen wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 12:33 pm I pointed out a flaw in your argument... three major cities with no heavy commuter rail but with extensive light rail and no interchange.

Let's refresh which three major cities they were?
No connection with Houston's light rail network.
No connection with San Antonio's light rail network.
No connection with Austin's light rail network.

Austin and San Antonio do not have electric powered light rail networks.
Houston does. Whooooooppie!
The distance between the closest light rail station and Amtrak train station in Houston is 3,500 feet.
About 66% or 2/3rds of a mile. That's just a good stretch of your legs.

Austin does use diesel-electric powered Stadler GTWs today, and will soon have electric powered light rail trains in the near future (within a decade or so). The distance between the Amtrak train station and the closest projected light rail station will be 3.000 feet., about 57% of a mile. A shorter stretch of your legs.

San Antonio has zero plans for any type of train in the planning cycle.

I know of airport terminals where passengers are expected to walk 3500 feet.

MACTRAXX wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 1:29 pm Sand Box John - who regularly posts in the DC-MD-VA Forum - may remember more about the future heavy rail
rapid transit plans for WMATA and the Baltimore Metro system - which would have just one heavy-rail line built.
Baltimore was originally planning lines north-south, east-west, southwest-northeast and northwest-southeast.
The north-south line became the Light Rail route between Hunt Valley, Timonium and BWI Airport as we know.
The original Baltimore Metro car was to resemble the Metro 1000 series car in 1970s era artist renderings.

Baltimore-Washington passenger rail service has seen an interesting evolution in the past 50 years...MACTRAXX

I'm with you on the history. I'm kind of ashamed that Maryland cut the legs out of the heavy rail Baltimore Metro, namely due to the politics around 1980... and it took the politics of the 1990s to create Baltimore Light Rail.

That said, given the situation now... WMATA going to BWI is unneeded because MARC and Amtrak, plus the distance involved. WMATA to Dulles is definitely worth the build cost because of distance to there, while a Metro to BWI would that airport better over Light Rail.

But then... we're getting off-track here.