Commuter Rail Rail Systems - Signalling/Comms

Hi everyone,

I have a school project that I'm doing into commuter rails in the US. What I'm mostly interested, as an engineering student, is the type of signalling and comms they use in the control room - i.e., Bombardier, Siemens, installation by Alstom... product types, automated fare collection systems, etc. Anything related to the running of the rail systems.

It's a hefty list, but anything you could contribute would be most helpful! Thanks.

NM Albuquerque New Mexico Rail Runner Express
MA Boston MBTA Commuter Rail
IL Chicago Metra
IL/IN Chicago South Shore Line
TX Dallas DART Rail
CA Los Angeles Metrolink
FL Miami Tri-Rail
MN Minneapolis Northstar Line
TN Nashville Music City Star
CT New Haven Shore Line East
NY New York Long Island Rail Road
NY/CT New York Metro-North Railroad
NY/NJ/PA New York New Jersey Transit commuter rail
NY/NJ/PA Newark New Jersey Transit commuter rail
PA Philadelphia SEPTA Regional Rail
OR Portland metro area (west side suburbs) Westside Express Service (WES)
UT Salt Lake City FrontRunner
CA San Diego Coaster
CA San Francisco Caltrain
CA San Jose Altamont Commuter Express
WA Seattle/Tacoma Sounder
DC/MD Washington MARC
DC/VA Washington Virginia Railway Express

Really? No one has any information on the type of signaling and/or train control systems on ANY of these stations? What bout if the route is electrified or not?

What type of train management system does the operator use in their control room? Are we only interested in the rolling stock and customer service? What about the technology on the trains?

Help please!! Thanks....

I ride the Northstar in MN. I have no technical expertise, so if you tell me how one finds this information out - i.e. can I just ask the conductor? - I will do my best.

The only parts of your questions that I can answer right now is that the fare system is automated - you can either wave a prepurchased card in front of the sensor or you can use a credit card to purchase a ticket. There is no turnstyle, but they do spot check your card on board using what looks like a clamshell cell phone. (which apparently also works as an actual cell phone). I don't think the route is electrified - it uses regular train track which belongs to BNSF, I believe.

Tell me what questions to ask, and I will see what else I can find out.

dve wrote:Really? No one has any information on the type of signaling and/or train control systems on ANY of these stations? What bout if the route is electrified or not?

What type of train management system does the operator use in their control room? Are we only interested in the rolling stock and customer service? What about the technology on the trains?

Help please!! Thanks....

Firstly, welcome to RAILROAD.NET. I hope you can find some of your answers here!

Secondly, I wonder if you'd be better off contacting the agencies directly, or possibly perusing the Bombardier, Alstom and Siemens sites for mention of their completed projects. May I ask which school you attend? I took a Public Transit class at Michigan Tech University, and the professor there (Bill Leder) had quite a few contacts within the American public transit design community.

As for the Northstar Line in Minnesota, I can tell you that BNSF handles the dispatching, so you ought easily to be able to look up what sort of signaling they use on that line. It uses the same payment system as the light rail line, and the light rail is a Bombardier product (though I'm not sure about the ticketing system, since it was adopted on their buses as well.)

Northstarring wrote:I ride the Northstar in MN. I have no technical expertise, so if you tell me how one finds this information out - i.e. can I just ask the conductor? - I will do my best.

The only parts of your questions that I can answer right now is that the fare system is automated - you can either wave a prepurchased card in front of the sensor or you can use a credit card to purchase a ticket. There is no turnstyle, but they do spot check your card on board using what looks like a clamshell cell phone. (which apparently also works as an actual cell phone). I don't think the route is electrified - it uses regular train track which belongs to BNSF, I believe.

Tell me what questions to ask, and I will see what else I can find out.

As for specific questions, I suppose would be:

What type of train management system is used on the Northstar? Do they have a Positive Train Control system (PTC)? Have they signed up for the Electronic Train Management System (ETMS) or Advanced Civil Speed Enforcement System (ACSES)?

Do these systems create logs that allow the train operators to create reporting systems to help keep track of reliability, rolling stock failures, i.e., door problems or bogie problems, etc.

These system record anything relevant to the train, from preventing collisions, derailments, train movements through a switch left in the wrong position to recording delays from station to station. They are crucial to train planning. They also include the communications between platforms, control room and train.

That clamshell cell phone thing is, for example a wireless communications system they use to communicate between ticket sales and validation. If, for example, you forgot to buy a ticket at the station and got on the train - would you be able to buy a ticket on the train or would you get a fine? If the former, that means they have some wireless means on oh, taking a credit card to pay for the ticket, if not, then you either pay cash or get a fine. Since it's an actual cell phone, it probably is some Advantix type system where they can record ticket sales. It would probably be the most expensive type of ticket if you had to buy the ticket on the train as opposed to on the platform...

These systems can save lives. Thanks for your help!

mtuandrew wrote:Firstly, welcome to RAILROAD.NET. I hope you can find some of your answers here!

Secondly, I wonder if you'd be better off contacting the agencies directly, or possibly perusing the Bombardier, Alstom and Siemens sites for mention of their completed projects. May I ask which school you attend? I took a Public Transit class at Michigan Tech University, and the professor there (Bill Leder) had quite a few contacts within the American public transit design community.

As for the Northstar Line in Minnesota, I can tell you that BNSF handles the dispatching, so you ought easily to be able to look up what sort of signaling they use on that line. It uses the same payment system as the light rail line, and the light rail is a Bombardier product (though I'm not sure about the ticketing system, since it was adopted on their buses as well.)

Thanks! Well, unfortunately, train management systems are created separately from the rolling stock builders. Bombardier, Alstom and the like do link up with certain partners and manufacturer TMSs themselves, but it's ultimately up to the owner of the rail to decide what TMS they will use since they technically own that equipment. The operator just comes in and utilizes the info taken from these handy devices.

I go to school in England. I've been doing comparative studies in rails in the US vs. Europe. I've focused mostly on urban systems so this is my first real crack at commuter rails and boy are they different!

Thanks for your help and advice, I will look into getting in touch with some of the owners/operators directly!

The signaling systems are probably the easiest things to research, since they're installed for the public to see on the lines in question, and some inquisitive railfan probably has taken note of them . There are several threads in the wider RAILROAD.NET forum about adoption of Positive Train Control, especially the Amtrak, NJTransit and Metro-North forums, and Amtrak's properties are the only places where PTC has yet seen much revenue service. Theoretically, every railroad in America that hosts either hazardous waste or passenger service will need it to be installed in 2012, so check the major railroads' websites (UP, BNSF, NS, CSX, etc., as well as the major commuter lines) for more information. In the meantime, most of the lines use Automatic Block Signaling, Centralized Traffic Control or Automatic Train Control systems, depending on their traffic levels, with cab signaling along the Northeast Corridor in particular.

Metra's signaling system can best be described as a hodgepodge of CTC, ABS, and cab signals, and lot of that depends on a particular line's previous ownership, and the type of system inherited. And because Metra doesn't own all of the lines it runs on, it is dependent on other (host) railroads to dispatch its trains, which is why much of the CTC portion of the system is actually "de-centralized", and located in places like Omaha (UP), Dallas/Ft. Worth (BNSF), Minneapolis (CP), and Stevens Point WI (CN). However, there are a handful of active towers across the region, some of which are staffed and operated by Metra, that take care of most of the other CTC dispatching duties, although several other towers have closed over the past decade or so. The dispatching duties from these discontinued towers have since been moved to Metra's CCF (Consolidated Control Facility) in downtown Chicago. Also, ABS and cab signals are also prevalent on the system, particularly on the 3 UP (ex-CNW) lines, with ATS (Automatic Train Stop) used on the NW and N lines. CTC with cab signals are in use on the W line.

We Chicagoans lag behind the rest of the civilized world when it comes to commuter rail ticketing practices, however. TVM's are confined just to the Electric district, and only recently has the use of credit cards finally been accepted as a form of payment. Otherwise, most folks buy their tickets either from agents at staffed stations, or from conductors onboard trains at unstaffed stations. Metra is probably the largest commuter rail system in North America that still has these kinds of antiquated procedures, but getting Metra to accept credit cards is a first step at least...

On Nashville's MCS, the signal system is the same as needed by a short line railroad. Speed runs 60mph passenger, 40mph freight. There are a few short sidings where meets are held. with short 2-3 car passenger trains on a single track RR it's very simple.

Some tickets are sold in nearby Kroger grocery stores. Monthly passes are sold via the MCS office. There are ticket machines where you can feed your $5.00 to get one way or RT tickets. The conductor charges extra when you buy on board.

Train crews are trained to be conductor/engineers, operating with 2 man crews. A racetrack it ain't. A friendly down home service it is. Keep in mind the MCS runs 2 trains in & outbound when operating. The short line host Nashville & Eastern does not run freight in these periods. The N&E exists to interchange traffic from/to CSX with the online industries.

Part of the car rebuilding was to replace old systems with new electronics. Components are a lot smaller today!

The Sounder runs on BNSF tracks betweenTacoma, Seattle and Everett. The tracks and signal system have been upgraded to allow for the the Sound Transit trains. The dispatching and train operations are handled by BNSF. I think most, if not all, of the track is CTC.

thanks everyone!

NICTD (South Shore Line) is Railcomm CTC in the control center between Kensington Interlocker and CP 32.2 (Michigan City), Yard Limits from CP 32.2 to Karwick Road, Railcomm TWC from Karwick Road to milepost 0.1 (South Bend Airport), and Yard Limits to the end of track at milepost 0. Signals are wayside, no cab/ATC or ATS installed. Plans for PTC are to use Wabco ETMS.

Does anyone have any information on the signaling/comms for the DART TRE system? Also, I know they are operated by Herzog at the moment but their contract expires later this year - any information on extensions or who else will be going after that contract? Thanks!

dve wrote:Does anyone have any information on the signaling/comms for the DART TRE system? Also, I know they are operated by Herzog at the moment but their contract expires later this year - any information on extensions or who else will be going after that contract? Thanks!

Herzog will get a new "joint" contract with the TRE and DCTA. Three transit agencies boards, FWTA, DART, and DCTA, are quickly dotting the i's and crossing the t's in the new contract. I would expect the new contract to be finalized soon.
The TRE is a continuing work in progress railroad, with improvements being made by work orders, one work order at a time. Herzog has the ability to not only run, operate, and maintain the equipment, but when necessary act as the main contractor when construction on the rail corridor is performed. They are a perfect match for the TRE with two transit agencies to please, and soon a third.

dve wrote:is the type of signalling and comms they use in the control room - i.e., Bombardier, Siemens, installation by Alstom... product types, automated fare collection systems, etc. Anything related to the running of the rail systems.
OR Portland metro area (west side suburbs) Westside Express Service (WES)

WES uses a CETC system dispatched by the Portland & Western Railroad out of the Albany dispatch desk. The line is equipped with ATC and cab signalling; and most of P&W's locomotives are likewise equipped to operate on the route.

In addition, at certain locations WES trains use a signal request system that is very similar, if not identical, to what MAX and Streetcar uses; this allows WES operators to request a signal when ready at the Tualatin and Beaverton TC stations.

Fare collection is identical to MAX - self-service ticket vending machines (however the machines used on the WES line only accept magstripe and RF credit/debit cards -- no cash or coin accepted) on each platform, barrier-free access, and ticket collection by inspection only by Conductors or Fare Inspectors. The Conductors on the train have no legal ability to enforce the fare; only Fare Inspectors do. TriMet bus transfers are also accepted; provided they are all-zone transfers. (Ironically, the TVMs do allow you to purchase a one/two zone fare which are only good on buses, except at Wilsonville, which has a different bus transit agency altogether.) At Beaverton, one can purchase a ticket from a TVM on the MAX platform with cash and use it to ride WES.