Childrens Museum Utica NY

CSX would not let a perfectly good steam locomotive be moved just a few miles in West Virginia just a month or two ago so
it is highly unlikely that they would move the steam locomotive anywhere except on a flat car. It might be the same for the
RSC-2 as well. The other stuff, might be in the same boat as well. Too bad the NYS&W is washed out because that is most
the only route out of town that would completely avoid the CSX.
I think the cost to move this stuff out of Utica would be so high that probably it would be impossible to raise the funds to
accomplish it.
Noel Weaver

I don't think the U&MV Chpater newsletter "Tower Topics" is on line, but the subject matter is covered in President Douglas Preston's message on Page 1 of the September 2010 issue (#333).

Basically Preston states that prior to the August 19th board meeting of the Chapter they received a letter from the Chairman of the Board of the Children's Museum with the "request" that the Chapter removes it's rail equipment from their property within 30 days of receipt of the letter. Preston states as of August 28th they had sought legal counsel to better understand their rights as related to the Museum's "request". Preston states if legal counsel finds the Museum within their rights, then it becomes a question on how to comply and what the limited possibilities are given the deadline. Scrapping is a "very unattractive possibility from the standpoint of historic preservation" according to Preston. The Chapter was to meet again with legal counsel on the issue and that is all that has been reported directly from them at this time that I am aware of. Certainly at this point the 30 days has expired. I am sure there will be more forthcoming.

Cactus Jack wrote:Basically Preston states that prior to the August 19th board meeting of the Chapter they received a letter from the Chairman of the Board of the Children's Museum with the "request" that the Chapter removes it's rail equipment from their property within 30 days of receipt of the letter. ...

Thanks for clearing that up. Unfortunate that the Museum has taken this route. Hopefully the Chapter can find a solution within its means that does not lead to the equipment getting cut up.

lvrr325 wrote:As for what to do with the stuff, assuming there's enough wheels and flanges left I would think all three pieces could have their brakes repaired enough to be moved again on live rail...

I have not been to Utica in many years, so please remind me... Are these pieces sitting on track that is connected to live rail? If not, you have the costly option of rebuilding temporary shoo-fly track to get to those pieces, or the costly option of hiring cranes and flatbeds (and once they are on a flatbed, you might as well keep going. You'll spend even more money bringing all of the safety appliances into compliance to move them on live rail)...

Unfortunately, this is going to be a very expensive proposition for whoever gets involved with the move.

-otto-

Otto,

The pieces of equipment surrounding the museum are not on live rail. Probably need 500' or more of track across a landscaped parking lot to get west of Genesee Street to do so. The NYS&W track is closest to the equipment. This is the same stub track that the steam engine is parked on at the station.

I can't beleive a Children's Museum would be asking to have something that is definitely a draw removed from their facility.

cjvrr wrote:I can't beleive a Children's Museum would be asking to have something that is definitely a draw removed from their facility.

Especially in light of the fact that 1) the museum is only a few yards from the CSX/ Amtrak main, 2) the museum is only a few yards from a beautiful, historic train station, and 3) the historic significance of Utica with regards to train operations. It would seem like an ideal venue to interpret the historical and current importance of rail transportation. There has got to be more to it than utility bills.

cjvrr wrote:The pieces of equipment surrounding the museum are not on live rail. Probably need 500' or more of track across a landscaped parking lot to get west of Genesee Street to do so.

Yikes. That's what I was afraid of.

-otto-

Otto, if you check out the pictures I posted on page 1 of this thread you can see what the situation is.

Benjamin Maggi wrote:Overview of the Museum (from the rear). Just to the foreground left is an old NYC switcher that is on display.


As the engine (RS-5?) was in 2005. I know at one time it was a chocolate brown color.


Coach on the museum's side which you can/could walk through:


Rear of museum with Caboose

Very good photos. For some reason, I thought I had remembered track buried in the parking lot, but that could have been on the other side of Union Station. So it looks like these pieces will go out like they came in, on a truck or with a crane.

Yeah. all that track at the museum was special built as static display pieces. At least, maybe they need to just truck it down to that spur track in front of the NYC steam loco display. That track is connected to the NYSW yard trackage so they could get in ito a storage position in short order. Of course cost is always the primary issue. I wonder what sort of agreement they had the Museum for displaying the equipment? And I believe the 30 day notice is simply the first step in an eviction process. There are a few more steps which can easily take months, even without litigation.

roadster wrote:Yeah. all that track at the museum was special built as static display pieces. At least, maybe they need to just truck it down to that spur track in front of the NYC steam loco display. That track is connected to the NYSW yard trackage so they could get in ito a storage position in short order. Of course cost is always the primary issue. I wonder what sort of agreement they had the Museum for displaying the equipment? And I believe the 30 day notice is simply the first step in an eviction process. There are a few more steps which can easily take months, even without litigation.

There's also a long back track in the vicinity, not sure who it belongs to. I'm sure there's a means of getting the equipment off the property, but it's a matter of significant express.

tree68 wrote:Never mind the individual characteristics of the "Tampa Tiger" and the condition of the track at the time, the Mohawk & Malone isn't exactly known for miles and miles of tangent - there are more than a few 5.5 degree curves, not exactly the friendliest territory for a six axle, moreso for an early example of the breed.

I really can't imagine why they bought such oddball equipment. It appears as if a lot of the motive power and rolling stock was hard of the tracks.

tree68 wrote:I've encountered accusations that not all of the money intended for things like track maintenance ended up going into the track, finding a home in a pocket or two instead. But that's probably third hand (or more) information and may or may not have a basis in fact.

From what I've heard, it's possible. There might have been issues with the ties themselves, or with the contractor(s). It was an inept operation from start to finish.

Cactus Jack wrote:We could debate the RSC-2 and ADK of 1977-80 forever. I was there in '80, worked with the "Tiger", drew a paycheck (that cashed) from ADK, worked for the new Adirondack, worked on the new track rehab AND have "borrowed parts from the #25 for the RS-3 (8223) and know both operations from then and now and equipment & track better than I care to think about. But you are all throwing out alot of speculation ...

Back in 1980, the engineers were never at fault for any of the derailments. It always came down to rotten ties - and possibly the oddball equipment. The fact that all of the derailments were low speed affairs is pretty telling.

I think there was a separate thread about the railroad, with a lot of discussions on the very topic of ties and such. Could we keep this thread specific to the discussion of the outcome of the train equipment?

Benjamin Maggi wrote:I think there was a separate thread about the railroad, with a lot of discussions on the very topic of ties and such. Could we keep this thread specific to the discussion of the outcome of the train equipment?

Indeed, let's please stick to the matter at hand.

-otto-