Central Connecticut Rail Study Hartford-Waterbury (Busway)

Quick observations: we are talking about a proposal for future service, so shouldn't this be in the MNRR-CDOT forum? I think there are already topics there on this. While it is a historical service, we're talking about a busway vs. a railway in a futre context, so even if not MNRR-CDOT, than NE? Not that I'm a moderator, but I have stayed at a Holiday Inn.

As for the topic itself, I-84 has been fairly congested from the NY border to Hartford for a while, going back to when I lived in Patterson, NY and Danbury, CT in the 90's. I don't know how much difference a train would make, but it couldn't hurt. As for the length and style of the service, as Noel and others have pointed out, it would have to be over the old ROW direct instead of via Berlin, and perhaps it doesn't need to extend all the way to Waterbury (and the terrain beyond there is difficult and the ROW long gone as I've learned on here in the "historical context".

Jeff

According to the information I have seen... for *less* money than the busway could cost, you could restore rail service and serve more people PLUS mitigate traffic congestion on I-84. What's more, the busway project is not fully funded, where there are funds available for rail.

-otto-

Shh, Otto, you're using logic. Something CTDot lacks, you'll confuse them. Take their "environmental impact" studies on NHV-SPG commuter rail. How long have trains been on that line? *eyeroll*

Plus, you're going to take away a dedicated right of way (assuming it's land or rail-banked along inactive portions) and pour tons of concrete (can you say "run-off flooding"?) at inflated prices and run how many buses a day? How many HOV lanes have we seen around the country that are under-used and eventually converted to general traffic? The only time busways make sense are at choke-points such as bridges and tunnels. The busway is a stupid idea. Period.

I agree but stupidity is a disease in all governments, at all levels and affecting all politicians regardless of political party and connections. Very few of them have the slighest clue of public transportation, railroading or most important common sense.
Noel Weaver

I wouldn't start at Waterbury, or necessarily end in New Haven. It seems like Bristol or New Britain are feasible. How much of the old CNE ROW exists east of Hartford?

Think you mean NY&NE-- the CNE terminated in Hartford.

As for that, the old NY&NE main line remains in service as far as Manchester. From there east the rails are gone and it's a rail trail as far as Willimantic.

Thanks. I've never been to the Hartford station, but figured that it probably doesn't have any storage capacity. I thought a through-running train would serve two-sides of Hartford and obviate the issue.

Back to my NYNH&H history on predecessors........

Just to give an idea from a historical aspect as to what the Hartford Station was like during the New Haven period. The tracks were numbered 4-2-1-3 with track 4 being the northbound Springfield Line track and track 2 the southbound Springfield line track. Track 1 was the eastbound Waterbury Line track and track 1 was the westbound Waterbury Line track. Late in the NHRR period after the Waterbury passenger trains came off the Springfield
Line tracks took their proper numbers of 2 for northbound and 1 for southbound. I believe this took place when the Waterbury Line became single track between Newington and SS-214, I would have to dig for when that happened and I do not have time to do that today. The station itself had and still has a huge room inside the doors on Union Place and in the middle of this area was an information desk which I think the RMNE has in Thomaston, it was staffed for most of the day and maybe even at night at one time. The ticket windows were off to the south, several of them, while on the west wall was a soda fountain and lunch counter and also a news stand. There were neat stairways up to the northbound Springfield Line track 4 and these are still here but they do not see much use as the track has been removed.

There was a underpass in the station to stairways for tracks 1 and 2 (same stairway, island platform) and finally track 3. The island platform still is used for the one track remaining the main track for Amtrak. The Amtrak ticket office and official waiting room has been created in part of this underpass area which years ago might have been the baggage room, I can't seem to remember for sure.

If you ever get up that way the building is significant and well worth a visit. There were some nice murals on the walls too and I think they are still there. Years ago Hartford had a huge amount of passenger service and the station is a reminder of those days.
Noel Weaver

I think that this whole busway idea came out when Gov. Rowland was in office. I'm sure that certain of his appointees in the DOT did not fall with him. I'll bet some of them still have ties to the road construction company principals.
I don't totally agree with what Noel said about the jobs being spread out. Downtown Hartford will need more city buses (or better yet, rebuild the trolley system). This will get people to various areas of the city. Right now, they should concentrate on the Hartford line, both north and south of Hartford, along with frequent service between New Haven and Springfield. For now, Bristol and Plainville commuters can use Berlin or a new station in Newington. The next stage should be the Highland and Midland. I'll bet that the Valley would be good for Middletown, Cromwell, and Rocky Hill.

The Valley, that's a laugh, single track wandering through Weathersfield, Rocky Hill and Cromwell eventually ending up in
Middletown. One could make it on Route 9 in much less time. This line is single track and would require an all new railroad
in order to be available for any passenger service and it is plagued with many grade crossings as well. Finally this line does
not go directly into the station at Hartford but wanders through the yard and only indirectly reaches the station.
You will be lucky to see an improvement on the Springfield Line and maybe not soon either, Connecticut simply does not have
the money for improvements and additional service.
Noel Weaver

You're right, that was a stupid comment. Middletown could be served by Berlin.

The Middletown to New Britain RxR line is long gone.
You would be hard pressed to even find where the ROW was

Plus I don't think there is much demand for passenger traffic between those cities.
There is sufficient demand for service in and around Middletown/Meriden to Hartford, but you would need some kind of a feeder system to get them to the stations along any proposed line.

Manchester to Hartford would also work, but does the existing rail line go deep enough into the suburbs before becoming a trail ?

The bigger-picture problem with Hartford-centric commuter rail (as opposed to the NH-H-S proposal, which is basically about moving people north-south through the center of the state) is geography. The Hartford-area commuter towns that are most dependent on downtown Hartford jobs, and could use better mass transit connections, are the towns in the Farmington valley and beyond: Farmington itself, Unionville, Collinsville, Canton, Avon, Simsbury, etc. All the other Hartford suburbs are pretty accessible via I-91 or I-84.

Problem is, there is no direct rail access to the Farmington valley from downtown Hartford, as Talcott Mountain is in the way. Even the long-gone Central New England route through Tarriffville Gorge was pretty roundabout for most of those towns. Unless someone somehow gets funding to rebuild the Farmington Avenue trolley line out to Unionville, I don't think we're going to see major rail-based mass transit focusing on Hartford any time in the near future.

Only Stamford & Bridgeport are thinking about light rail/trolleys.