Can you run a big 6 axle unit long Hood forward?

I am not going to attempt to include your quotes here because of the software glitches which occur with long posts.

It has been ascertained in this thread:
·The configuration of locomotives and their equipment, which do not lend easy to running backwards.
· You work for a carrier who has equipped their locomotives very differently than anything I have been on.
· When running backwards without proper equipment, you are restricted to 20 mph over any crossing. A majority of the fleet my employer has, and other foreign units are not equipped for long hood forward running. For example, the cameras are only mounted on the front of the locomotive, the intended path of travel. No ditch lights, etcetera.
· Not all railroad management, who allocate locomotives take into consideration the humans who have to operate them. Some do assign units by job characteristics and needs. For example, instead of one GP38-2 on a local, two GP15's or two switchers. If they (Management) cannot assure proper equipment to do the job, what good are they? And why should my body have to pay for that lack of planning?
· There is too much mixing of apples and oranges here.

Above all, a safe, healthy working environment is far and above the best reasoning for not running long hood forward for any distance or speed (outside of yard limits, and over restricted speed). Anything else is just excuses.

Goodness. When one reads, "vertical sheet steel", the first thing that pops into mind is something flimsy and hardly structural, as in the skin of a car door. The average Joe can discern between the types.

HoggerKen wrote: It has been ascertained in this thread:
·The configuration of locomotives and their equipment, which do not lend easy to running backwards.

Agreed. Most Locomotives are not comfortable to run long hood forward.

HoggerKen wrote:· You work for a carrier who has equipped their locomotives very differently than anything I have been on.

Apparently so. I have had run through power from every major class 1 railroad and i have yet to see any of them having 4 axle units that were not intended to be used in both directions and as for 6 axle power, with the exception of desktop controls any could be run long hood forward, the only restriction being units lacking rear ditch lights which would be limited to 20mph over crossings.

HoggerKen wrote:· When running backwards without proper equipment, you are restricted to 20 mph over any crossing. A majority of the fleet my employer has, and other foreign units are not equipped for long hood forward running. For example, the cameras are only mounted on the front of the locomotive, the intended path of travel. No ditch lights, etcetera.

What proper equipment?, the only "Equipment" the would make running long hood forward vs short hood forward an issue is Ditch lights. And that is only an issue if their are road crossings involved. You cannot exceed 20mph over a crossing without them. But crossings aside, you can run track speed. Even long hood forward. While it's nice to have the protection of the camera whichever way you run, it is not an FRA rule. Just as having armrests on cab seats is not an FRA rule. But nothing else on a locomotive would prohibit you legally from running long hood forward.

HoggerKen wrote:· Not all railroad management, who allocate locomotives take into consideration the humans who have to operate them. Some do assign units by job characteristics and needs. For example, instead of one GP38-2 on a local, two GP15's or two switchers. If they (Management) cannot assure proper equipment to do the job, what good are they? And why should my body have to pay for that lack of planning?

Most management does not care about your comfort. We all know that. We could spend a day just talking about that. They are concerned with the bottom line. And i know most railroads would prefer giving you one 3,000 HP loco on a local then two 1,500 hp loco's. It's half the maintenance and half the power being used up. We have slug sets which are great. But not all the time.

HoggerKen wrote:· There is too much mixing of apples and oranges here..

If their is, it's by you. The questions was asked, can you run a locomotive long hood forward and with freight engines the answer is YES. Your displeasure for doing so is understandable, but because it's often uncomfortable does not mean it's against any rules. I hate running loco's with A/C, but no rule requires it. I hate not having arm rests and rearview mirrors, but no rule requires them. What i prefer and what the rules say often do not mix.

HoggerKen wrote:Above all, a safe, healthy working environment is far and above the best reasoning for not running long hood forward for any distance or speed (outside of yard limits, and over restricted speed). Anything else is just excuses..

Call them excuses all you want. Untill the FRA or your carrier says you don't have to, you will be required to run long hood forward at times.

HoggerKen wrote:Goodness. When one reads, "vertical sheet steel", the first thing that pops into mind is something flimsy and hardly structural, as in the skin of a car door. The average Joe can discern between the types.

Most people mechanically inclined would know that. But we still have people who think the Conductor runs the train.

Actually if someone actually filed a safety challange the issue would probably permanently resolved.
no need to run some engines backward unless no other engine or turning facility is present.

DutchRailnut wrote:Actually if someone actually filed a safety challange the issue would probably permanently resolved.
no need to run some engines backward unless no other engine or turning facility is present.

Depends where you work. The unions have tried to stop it for years and failed. A safety challenge will not get very far when even the FRA has no issue with what you are fighting. Even at places where a wye is not that far away, i have been ordered to run as is. No recourse. They were built to run both ways and the FRA takes no exception to it. So we lose.

Unless you have multiple loco's to use. Doing local or yard work, you will end up running long hood forward at some point in the day. It's part of the job.

The safety challange is not only FRA but also to prevent injuries.
btw.NV290 anyone ever tell you you are potential managment ??? just my $0.02
either that or still a fairly newbee, you see everything thru rose colored glases or management way.

DutchRailnut wrote:The safety challange is not only FRA but also to prevent injuries.

I am well aware of challenging a procedure based on safety. I am also well aware of the fact that if what you are challenging is the norm on every other major carrier and the FRA does not take exception to it, then you will be fighting a long battle that will get you nowhere. You think the BLE has not tried? Railroads are not going to install turntables or wye's at all their yards or go out of their way to have more locomotives in each yard to be certain there is always one facing the right direction. Maybe if your railroad has a yard in fantasyland, but not in the real world. And not on a class 1.

DutchRailnut wrote:btw.NV290 anyone ever tell you you are potential managment ??? just my $0.02.

Keep your 2c. I have been approached numerous times for a road foreman position. I am not interested. I prefer running trains, not pushing paperwork.

DutchRailnut wrote:either that or still a fairly newbee,.

17 years on the job. Far from a newbee. And where i work we run actual trains with actual locomotives. I am not glorified motorman.

DutchRailnut wrote:you see everything thru rose colored glases or management way.

No, i am simply realistic. I do my job, i follow the rules, i get a paycheck. Some people like to find fault with everything and complain about everything. Not me. If that is how you like to do your job, good for you. What am i seeing through rose colored glasses?. Because i refuse to whine to management about having to be uncomfortable for a few hours a day? I am paid very well to do my job. I have no complaints. I could be over in Iraq making less money and being in a truly uncomfortable situation. They have a right to complain. Not me.

witdrawn by poster

I tried to find some pictures on Railpictures.net of the Dash 9 cabs with the universal control stand setup for long or short hood running so it would be easier to understand the layout. But i had no luck. If i come across one, ill post the link.

In this regard, running long hood forward wouldn't that create visibility issues? You wouldn't be able to see very clearly in front of you? And what about running an SW (1001, 1200, 1500, etc) in reverse, I imagine, great visibility.

airman00 wrote:In this regard, running long hood forward wouldn't that create visibility issues? You wouldn't be able to see very clearly in front of you? .

It does create visibility issues. Which is why the vast majority of railroads avoid running road freights this way. NS is the only railroad i know that will send road freights out this way under normal circumstances, but it's because they have locomotives setup to run this way.

It is a much safer way to run collision wise. No argument there. But visibility is key. Back in the steam days, every locomotive (minus cab forwards) ran with the cab behind the boiler, creating the same limited visibility. That is why many railroads saw no issue continuing to run that way.

airman00 wrote:And what about running an SW (1001, 1200, 1500, etc) in reverse, I imagine, great visibility.

Yes, the visibility is great. You will often find two switchers coupled nose to nose making a set on units with great visibility in each direction.

I think NV290 has answered the questions very well and filled with lots of info.. Can you? Yes. Is it safe? Up for debate, considering the engines appliances(aux./ditch lights on longhood end), and cab layout. Only RR that routinely does so, NS. Most RR's wide bodies have the desktop type of control stand, making the engineer face forward. This is very awkward to run longhood forward. NS coventional controlstands make running Longhood somewhat easier. I prefer to run cab forward. My RR generally follows that practice. Exceptions are some work trains and unusual/emergency situations. This past summer I ran a work train with an SD45-2 longhood forward. Not fun, but was rules compliant.