Can CSX,NS make money with high speed freight trains?

Railroading is. pretty much by definition, onne of those places where theoretical economics both demonstrate and clash with the imperfections of daily life.

Perhaps no better evidence of this exists than the fact that Ayn Rand, the libertarian/capitalist opposite of Karl Marx, wrote her best-known work,Atlas Shrugged, about a railroad. But Rand didn't know much about the culture of continuous regimentation and self-effacement that characterizes corporate life. Her working life was spent in Hollywood; the railroads have always been organized using the military model ... it would be hard to envision rwo industrial cultures more in oppostion.

A far better investigation of the private rail industry's role in an open and democratic society was prodced in 1971-72 in a series of monthly installments in a scholarly free-market economic journal entited the Freeman, published by a private foundation, and read mostly by academics and students committed to a free-market ideoloogy. The Foundation for Ecomnomic Education is still in existence, as evidenced below.

http://www.fee.org/

The work cited above, by Clarence Carson, was later published as "Throttling the Railroads", and became one of the priime sources of reference for those advocating (successfuly!) deregulation a few years later.

But my point in bringing up this work is merely that there are no quick fixes and overnight solutions, and the unstable nature of daily existence in an urbanized, post-industral society makes quantum changes, such as the adoption of a nationwide, uniform HSR system, highly unlikely. To cite one example, Mr. George Mathews and I are in fundamental disagreement on just about everything involving the role of the state in daily life, but I've visited his website, and hold a respect for the researh behing his arguments, even if we seldom agree.

That is what this site is really about ... intelligent discourse about subects too specialized to capture much attention from the weekly newsmagazines and public-affairs broadcasts. It's one of the most basic benefits brought about by the development of the Internet ... rational exchange of information about a subject too complex to be placed at one pole of the ideological battleground.

So lead on, gentlemen ... just keep it respectul. When I came here back in 2002, I was a lot more subject to the polarized attitude almost all of us hold when we start out here. Adapting things to what will work is the prime function of parliamentary democracy.

Um...CN ran its Laser TOFC container trains and VIA ran its high speed LRC trains at a pretty fast clip on the same tracks between Toronto-Montreal. Heck I was standing on a plaform by Dorval and I was almost blown off my feet by a passing General merchandise freight train

I think the nec is the obvious place to start . Bostoon to Washington (or maybe Harrisburg ) , then hand over to a freight railroad . But it wouldnt be a freight train size train , so no Chase problems . i would imagine something the lenght of the autotrain at most . single level , an preferably in passenger styled modern mhc cars . speed and conjestion avoidance would give it an advantage , even if it then travels slower south of Washington it has a head start .

If high speed freight were available, businesses would adapt to use it.

Sears and Roebuck located in Chicago because of the rail system. Order through their catalog and they would ship it anywhere in the country by rail. You could even buy a house from Sears and they would pack up all of the lumber, nails, etc. into one boxcar and send it out.

Columbus is within 500 miles of half of the population of the United States. Columbus could host a giant warehouse full of sheet metal parts for every car sold in America. That way, when someone wrecks a Mini Cooper in Boston or a Scion in Schenectady, the parts could be on their way and delivered to the body shop within 24 hours.

Norfolk is a deep water port that will soon be handling more ships from the far east through the new Panama Canal. Imagine warehouses in Norfolk full of furniture in every color and pattern imaginable. So if you're shopping in Providence and really want that recliner in green plaid, they can ship it up to you from the warehouse that serves the entire eastern half of the country.

Now a fender here or a couch there may not seem like much. But the right delivery system allows a business to grow volume. It was no coincidence that Sears' use of the railroads in Chicago enabled it to become the world's largest store. With reliable overnight service, a shipping container here and there can rapidly become hundreds of shipping containers per day going to retail outlets with low inventories and just-in-time delivery to their anxious customers.

mtuandrew wrote:

amtrakowitz wrote:The way they regulate railroads in this country, it is not possible. There used to be some high-speed freights under steam, ironically (the 4-8-4 was one of the better dual-service steamers). Then the liberals came along with their government support of highways and air transportation infrastructure.

Dwight Eisenhower, durn liberal.

His "military industrial complex" speech is classic liberal stuff. Never mind that 92% tax rate for the tip-top earners; no wonder manufacturing started to flee these shores.

mtuandrew wrote:Not to mention, Jimmy Carter deregulated the railroads in 1980.

Sure, to the point where Amtrak wasn't needed anymore, right? What a stroke of brilliance.

mtuandrew wrote:Technologically, it's very possible to run freights at fairly high sustained speeds. On this continent, the Santa Fe did so, averaging over 60 mph from Los Angeles to Chicago in the 1970s until they lost their US Mail contract. Amtrak has also done so, using its Material Handling Cars (boxcars riding on passenger-style trucks) at up to 79 mph. And of course, the TGV La Poste runs at 270 km/h, nearly 170 mph. The FRA's regulations about maximum speed don't encourage innovation, but neither does the freight industry's lack of suitable track to use at high speed. The crunch on capacity could be lessened if all or nearly all of the trains ran at higher speeds, but throwing one or two fast freights into the mix gums up everything - see the example of Amtrak on coal-hauling lines.

If a freight railroad on this continent saw both a need and a profit to be made from 80+ mph haulage, it would invest in the necessary track and signal upgrades. Until then, they seem willing to cede the fastest freight to trucks and aircraft.

The freight industry has a lack of suitable track due to FRA's regulations. Let's not kid ourselves. The federal government continuing to compete against private industry with respect to infrastructure is also a massive disincentive (you can't compare countries like Germany, France, Japan, Spain etc. because the government owns and funds all of it including railroads).

The technical aspect is not in question at all. Back during the "streamliner" days, average speeds of between 60 and 70 mph were the norm for such trains, even mixed in with several freights of variable speeds.