Brightline Expansion - Tampa

That sort of thinking is decades out of date. The smart way is to make it easy for guests to get to WDW and on site hotels. And to encourage longer stays even if there are days when you go off site to other attractions because the hotels should be pretty profitable. Right now, getting to WDW, especially from MCO, is very painful and expensive and time consuming. But also, people are known to go to both WDW and other places in Florida, many of which are or will be serviced by Brightline.

ALL the Orlando Parks' pricing shows how many days they think the average customer wants to "do" the park.

Disney's 2nd, 3rd, & 4th day costs about as much as the first day and then the price drops for Day 5 and then really drops beyond day 7. This suggests that Disney thinks you'll naturally "do" about 4 days, and that they're more motivated to keep you for Day 5 , 6 and 7 (see https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/admis ... eme-parks/)

They want a monopoly on airport transfers and to get it they'd much rather put you on the bus (Disney's Magical Express should come back soon).

SeaWorld, at the other extreme is more like: Pay for Day 1 and get Day 2 for free. They are self-aware enough to know that they're so unlikely to get you back for Day 2 that they're willing to give it to you for Free.

In between is Universal, which is more like a 2-day place. They are going to work real hard to "take" it from the "back half" of your week at Disney.

Disney "wins" days 1 2 3 4 Universal wins days 6 7. And there's a fiercely-fought battle around Day 5.

The point is: if they think you've taken a 5 to 7 days vacation, they are strongly motivated to keep you on-property every night you're in Florida, and also know there's a real "danger" that you'll leave to "do" Universal or Sea World if it was as easy as hopping on a train.

I suspect they even have data on how Disneyland Paris' TGV is a mixed blessing--on the plus side, making it easy for car-lite European households to *get* to Disneyland Paris, but also making it easy for them to be whisked away--back home (day trip only) or to split time with Paris itself.

SlowLayne wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 3:37 pm Their business model has always been to keep guests on property for their entire stay.

Had relative who figured that out over 40years ago. He really got upset when he took his kids.

I suspect this is going to feel like "why doesn't the Vegas Monorail go to the Airport" Not that it is exactly similar, but that the stop-locations are not the same as the usual transit demand nodes--the various facilities "free market" incentives and interest-group incentives are not the same as what a transit-planner's list of demand nodes.

Tampa Extension: Orlando Weekly

Brightline is 'making tremendous strides' toward an Orlando-to-Tampa route

Although questions have been raised over Brightline’s financing and ticket prices, the company is planning to grow
...
But Christine Kefauver, senior vice president of corporate development for the Brightline rail service, told a state House panel last week that the company is “making tremendous strides” toward an Orlando-to-Tampa route after completing a project connecting Miami and Orlando.

“It is complex to get to Tampa, but we're up to the challenge,” Kefauver told members of the House Transportation and Modals Subcommittee.
...
While questions have been raised over Brightline’s financing, ticket prices and when the company can operate solely on fares, Kefauver said the company is planning to grow, with 30 passenger cars ordered from Siemens Mobility to “accommodate that growth.”

Meanwhile, with the 2024 legislative session ready to start Jan. 9, Rep. Karen Gonzalez Pittman, R-Tampa, has submitted a $50 million proposal (House Form 1989) for rail improvements in the Interstate 4 corridor, where Brightline plans to roll in the median at speeds up to 150 mph.
...
In her proposal, Gonzalez Pittman pointed to an anticipated $50 million in federal funding for the I-4 link. She also tied the state money to the Moving Forward Florida program, a wide-ranging transportation initiative that includes three I-4 projects.
...

A decade away: https://www.newsweek.com/florida-high-s ... ed-1957892

Florida High-Speed Rail Line Could Be Extended

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The timeline for extending the service to Tampa remains uncertain. Rail expert Bob O'Malley recently estimated that Tampa could be a decade away from welcoming Brightline.

He told the Tampa Bay Business Journal this month that several major infrastructure projects along the Interstate 4 corridor and in Polk County that need to be completed before the rail extension is feasible.

"The extension of the Tampa Streetcar, bike and pedestrian improvements and other modes of transportation in the area are important because if and when Brightline comes to Tampa, riders will need those last-mile connections," O'Malley said.
...

Ironic that they mention bike and pedestrian infrastructure improvements, before proceeding with a major rail project. A lot of the bike paths and whatever else that are springing up in and around Tampa, are old railroad ROWs that could've been used for commuter rail or to turn Tampa Streetcar into a more sprawling light rail

JohnFromJersey wrote: ↑Wed Oct 02, 2024 8:09 am Ironic that they mention bike and pedestrian infrastructure improvements, before proceeding with a major rail project. A lot of the bike paths and whatever else that are springing up in and around Tampa, are old railroad ROWs that could've been used for commuter rail or to turn Tampa Streetcar into a more sprawling light rail

Why not both? I'm sure the easement is large enough for a single track and trail.

scratchyX1 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 02, 2024 10:18 am Why not both? I'm sure the easement is large enough for a single track and trail.

1. From what I recall, a lot of the old railroads in the Tampa area are single-tracked, not multi-tracked, so cramming a trail + railroad next to each other on that is gonna be tough
2. I can imagine liability concerns. Someone is gonna get hit by the train and try to sue the railroad

Rail with trail is as simple as a "fencing, ditches, berms, vegetation, or any combination of these options. When fencing is needed, corridor characteristics, such as the setback distance, location of legal at-grade crossings, and the type, speed, and frequency of rail service will influence the appropriate fencing style, including height and material."|

Rails-with-Trails: Best Practices and Lessons Learned. U.S. Department of Transportation, 2021.

Yes, it is simple to do, but difficult to fund. The most difficult part is deciding who will be responsible to build and maintain the rails and/or the trails. Transit agencies are terrible at maintaining parks. Cities are terrible at maintaining trains and tracks.

The solution for rail-with-trail is as simple as an easement that gives the rail authority responsiblity for its rail (and they usually pick/maintain the fencing) and the parks-and-rec authority for its trail. We see this recently along the Purple Line in MD between Bethesda and Silver Spring, and the MBTA Green LIne extension through Somerville MA, and are seeing it on the MBTA proposal for 2 tracks of electrified shuttle through the MIT campus (currently one diesel track) and a City/University bike path..

The hard part is the NIMBYs who oppose any new uses for old ROWs, not building a fence and divvying roles.

MBTA also runs through dozens of cities, any particular line through a half dozen or more cities. A bike path or trail along the entire length of the line would require a half dozen to more such agreements, or getting that many to sign on to a single agreement. An easy task to do between two parties, but with ever increasing difficulties as more and more parties must agree. That's the difficult task, and the Brightline line in particular runs through hundreds of miles and cities. If Brightline finds it difficult to reach agreements on where to place stations, what makes you think reaching agreements for bike paths or trails will be easier?