branch line to Cog from Mt Division?

pipeman32 wrote:sadly, they are running a diesel this year with plans to build two more. end of steam on the cog?

No, steam will remain; it will just be really limited. The questions I'm thinking about are: 1. How often will they run steam? 2. How many will they keep?

Somehow it dosn't seem like the sound of a large lawnmower tractor will have quite the same ambience as the steam units chugging up and down the mountain. But, hey that's progress I guess.

The B&M 4-4-0 #494 that now is in White River Jct ran some of its last active days on the Base Station Branch hauling coal to the heating plant at the Mt. Washington Hotel.

ferroequinarchaeologist wrote:
For anybody who likes to hike/ski old railbeds, this part of New Hampshire - along US 302 from North Conway to Littleton - is a playground.

PBM

I've been a season pass holder for a few years now at Bear Notch Touring Center in Bartlett, NH. They have a couple of sections of their trails that are on the railbed. One section is from east of Bartlett Center over to the Bear Mt. Ski Area portion of Attitash. (There is some old rolling stock on this section.) Another section north of US 302 and west of Bartlett Center is shared with the snowmobiles to cross the Albany Brook. I think a pass from Bear Notch is required to ski these sections. Can't really ski too far without going on other Bear Notch trails unless you want to tangle with the sleds. Continuing beyond these shared trails, the railbed is a snowmobile trail west to the Sawyer River Trail (which I believe is an old logging railroad ROW). I usually wait until late into the season and on a weekday to ski along the snowmobile trail so I don't have to deal with the sleds. Had to take pictures for my cousin out in California!

FWIW, I believe Bear Notch Road is also a former logging railroad ROW. I've trekked on my XC skis up to the Third Overlook a couple of years. Great vista of the Saco River Valley and Mt. Washington. Again, late in the season and on a weekday because this too is a snowmobile trail.

Great info on the B&M trail at Bretton Woods.

Just curiuos if anyone knew, were did the cog railroad get its coal? Did they ever get a hopper dropped off for them at fabayans? I was also wondering if they had used the branch line to recieve coal while it was open. (or was the cog rr wood burning in the branch line years?)

Thanks

The B&M did transport coal right to the Cog when they converted the Cog from wood to coal but I'm not sure what year that all took place. When the B&M abandoned the line from Fabyan Station to the Cog, the B&M off loaded the coal at Fabyan Station where it was trucked the rest of the way. I don't know if the truck was owned by the B&M or the Cog but when the B&M pulled out of Fabyan some years later, coal delivery was turned over to the MEC and I've been told that service lasted right up until the very end of the Mt. Division.

pipeman32 wrote:sadly, they are running a diesel this year with plans to build two more. end of steam on the cog?

not really. now if we think about it pipeman32, the cog is atempting to go green. and they don't have to get rid ao all the steam. if memory serves, the cog convertered no.9 to burn biodiesel, and they probably plan to convert the steam to burn biodiesel, and frankly, if we think about it, i may be a really good idea to mix diesel with steam.

daylight4449 wrote:

pipeman32 wrote:sadly, they are running a diesel this year with plans to build two more. end of steam on the cog?

not really. now if we think about it pipeman32, the cog is atempting to go green. and they don't have to get rid ao all the steam. if memory serves, the cog convertered no.9 to burn biodiesel, and they probably plan to convert the steam to burn biodiesel, and frankly, if we think about it, i may be a really good idea to mix diesel with steam.

The 9 burned oil for only a short period. For a variety of reasons, it was returned to a coal burning locomotive. It does have, along with the 2, a feed water pump and heater. Exhaust steam is used to heat the water before entering the boiler. Makes a huge difference on the efficiency and operation of the engine.

If the Cog builds more diesel locomotives, I can't see them maintaining an extensive steam repair facility, along with knowledgeable personnel, to service steam locomotives which might only be used occasionally. That would go against the economic savings of utilizing diesels in the first place. This new diesel is the "thin entering wedge" which will displace all steam on the Cog Railway, no matter the protestations of management to the contrary. The Cog is going through what all railroads went through in the 1950s... dieselization. It just took longer to become the only viable option.

Richard W. Symmes

BM4-4-2 wrote:If the Cog builds more diesel locomotives, I can't see them maintaining an extensive steam repair facility, along with knowledgeable personnel, to service steam locomotives which might only be used occasionally. That would go against the economic savings of utilizing diesels in the first place. This new diesel is the "thin entering wedge" which will displace all steam on the Cog Railway, no matter the protestations of management to the contrary. The Cog is going through what all railroads went through in the 1950s... dieselization. It just took longer to become the only viable option.

Richard W. Symmes

Well you are right on some points. I think we all want to believe that steam locomotives will always be there and run frequently. I can't imagine they will disappear overnight, but when the other 2 diesels start running, their use will be severely decreased. The bad/good news, depending on how you feel is that the current diesel runs flawlessly. What an amazing piece of engineering and fabrication. By now it must have close to 300 trips. When I ran it over labor day weekend, it was past 225 trips. That is 225 trips with nothing but routine maintenance. You'd be hard pressed to run 5 days in the steamers without something needing fixing. The diesel sips fuel and the steamers use 1 ton of coal. So, you are right, the Cog is experiencing dieselization. Whether we like it or not!

Try to stay on the branch line topic. There is already a cog/steam/hybrid/etc discussion that is pretty indepth.

hello, i have seen a photo of the mount washington hotel heating plant coal line,(maybe 30 years ago) but can't locate in on the web. any ideas on how to locate it? have not seen it at base station, or hotel.

One has to seriously wonder what the implications would be for ridership.

Maybe I'm just too much of a railfan, but I struggle to picture folks lining up for a glorified garden tractor (with all due respect to those behind the mechanics of the machine- I'm saying that from the perspective of a layperson with little/no interest or appreciation of engineering/mechanics, not from my own personal viewpoint) the way they do for the steam engines. I think for many the reason for taking the train vs. the auto road is -because- it is steam-powered. If internal combustion is taking you to the top anyway, it may as well be in the comfort of your own Ford Explorer or minivan.

Just my .02, your mileage may vary, but it would not surprise me to see a slump in ticket sales if they went all or mostly diesel.

Then there's the issue of, "the 1o:00 train had steam, my 11:00 train has a diesel- what a jip!"

Maybe the general public really doesn't care, maybe I'm giving them too much credit. to know/care about the diference.. but IMHO I think part of why folks are willing to pay the train fare is for the uniqueness and nostalgia and tangible sensory effects that no diesel will be able to provide.

oibu wrote:One has to seriously wonder what the implications would be for ridership.

Maybe I'm just too much of a railfan, but I struggle to picture folks lining up for a glorified garden tractor (with all due respect to those behind the mechanics of the machine- I'm saying that from the perspective of a layperson with little/no interest or appreciation of engineering/mechanics, not from my own personal viewpoint) the way they do for the steam engines. I think for many the reason for taking the train vs. the auto road is -because- it is steam-powered. If internal combustion is taking you to the top anyway, it may as well be in the comfort of your own Ford Explorer or minivan.

Just my .02, your mileage may vary, but it would not surprise me to see a slump in ticket sales if they went all or mostly diesel.

Then there's the issue of, "the 1o:00 train had steam, my 11:00 train has a diesel- what a jip!"

Maybe the general public really doesn't care, maybe I'm giving them too much credit. to know/care about the diference.. but IMHO I think part of why folks are willing to pay the train fare is for the uniqueness and nostalgia and tangible sensory effects that no diesel will be able to provide.

Try to stay on the branch line topic. There is already a cog/steam/hybrid/etc discussion that is pretty indepth....

cogger wrote:

daylight4449 wrote:

pipeman32 wrote:sadly, they are running a diesel this year with plans to build two more. end of steam on the cog?

not really. now if we think about it pipeman32, the cog is atempting to go green. and they don't have to get rid ao all the steam. if memory serves, the cog convertered no.9 to burn biodiesel, and they probably plan to convert the steam to burn biodiesel, and frankly, if we think about it, i may be a really good idea to mix diesel with steam.

The 9 burned oil for only a short period. For a variety of reasons, it was returned to a coal burning locomotive. It does have, along with the 2, a feed water pump and heater. Exhaust steam is used to heat the water before entering the boiler. Makes a huge difference on the efficiency and operation of the engine.

well, they could use coke