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  • Basic locomotive brakes

  • General discussion about railroad operations, related facilities, maps, and other resources.
General discussion about railroad operations, related facilities, maps, and other resources.

Moderator: Robert Paniagua

 #355003  by Aji-tater
 
I was reading a wreck thread on the CSX forum and there was some discussion of brakes on locomotives. It was pretty obvious some people here don't have much of an understanding of how things work. This is not meant as a put-down but maybe a real basic primer of brakes would be helpful - if you don't work for a railroad, and maybe don't volunteer at a museum or tourist line that operates locomotives there may not be much chance to learn. And this is not intended to be a real technical in-depth doctorate - just an intro. Also I'm talking your typical freight loco, I'll readily admit I know very little about blended braking or ECP stuff so maybe somebody else can speak to those.

Just about every locomotive has three braking methods. (not counting dynamic brakes which is a whole 'nother topic) The hand brake is strictly mechanical - by operating a brake wheel or a lever, you tighten up a chain. Through a system of levers, this forces the shoes on (usually) one axle up against the wheels. When you leave the loco unattended rules require you to apply a hand brake. This is because the air can leak off in time, or suddenly if something ruptures. The hand brake will usually be enough to prevent a unit from rolling freely, although a loco under power will usually overcome the hand brake.

The second brake is called the Independent brake. Also known as the straight air, the jam, and other terms. This is controlled by a handle on the brake stand or the desktop. Moving the lever causes air to go into the brake cylinders, pushing the pistons out. Through levers, this forces the shoes up against the wheels. If you have several units properly set up for multiple unit operation, the independent brake handle in the controlling unit will apply the engine brakes on ALL the units in the consist. The independent brake can be gradually released. Think of your car - if you are sitting at a red light with your foot hard on the brake, and you let off slightly, the car may creep a little because the brakes are still applied but not as tightly. By moving the brake handle left partway, an engineer can partly release the brakes by lessening the pressure in the brake cylinders.

Then there is the automatic brake. A full discussion would be impractical here as you could teach a college course on all the nuances and details. Very simply, air is pumped from the locos back through the brake pipe (or train line, same thing). At each car, a pipe called a Branch Pipe "T"s off the train line and goes to the car's brake valve. Air from the train line builds up pressure in the cars reservoirs. When a train is fully charged up, you will have 90 psi (or whatever is called for) in the train line, and in all the reservoirs. In actual practice small leaks in each car come into play and you will have slightly less pressure at the rear of a long train than at the front but we're trying to stay simple here so let's assume no leaks.

When the engineer wants to apply brakes he moves the automatic brake handle, which is separate from the independent brake handle. Air is let OUT of the train line and branch pipes. The brake valves on each car react to this lower pressure by allowing air to flow from the reservoir into the brake cylinder, forcing the pistons out, the levers move, and the shoes go up against the wheels. If a train breaks in two, or the train line is opened up by a derailment, or the engineer moves the handle all the way to emergency position, full pressure from the reservoir is directed towards the piston and the brakes come on hard.

Passenger brakes can in some cases be gradually or partially released like the independent brake, but freight car brakes can't - once they are applied, they must be released by re-charging the air system.

When the automatic brake is applied, the locomotive brakes will apply also, just as if you had used the independent brake handle. Sometimes this is OK, but for good train handling it is often desired to keep them off. In that case, the engineer then uses the independent brake handle - instead of moving it left or right, he will push it DOWN. This releases the loco brakes while having no effect on the braking on the cars. This is called "bailing off" the brakes.

In that CSX forum on the wreck someone was asking how a crew could switch cars without air. If the air is manually released (or "bled") from each freight car, the cars will roll freely. The engineer can only control the train with the independent brake because the train line is not connected. But in this way cars can be "kicked" or humped, rolling freely until either gravity or other cars cause them to stop.

I'm sorry if this has been long but entire books have been written about brakes and I'm just trying to give some very basics. There are a lot of other factors which make it more complicated but this is a start. And for those who want to learn more about basic switching, switches, coupling, signals and other stuff there is a book called "The Basic Training Manual For Brakemen and Switchmen" or something like that. It is published by Simmons Boardman, has been updated a few times, and is used by many railroads as an introduction for new hires. Those of you who WANT to learn more about how things really are, but can't actually hire out might want to buy a copy. Sometimes well-meaning but ignorant fans ask questions here "Why did the train do so-and-so" or How could (something) have happened. There are also various air brake manuals but I'm not sure where the average fan can buy them.

Those of us who work on the railroads must remember that many fans ask what seem like dumb questions because they just don't know how things work and that's because they have not had the chance. But we all had to learn those things too. And the fans can help themselves understand more, and ask more informed questions, by trying to understand how and why things work as they do.

 #355963  by UPRR engineer
 
I dont mind what anyone asks, as long as they dont cross the line. I think its kinda cool that i have the answers, wish it happened more in the Operations part. My door is always open here, so theres no sense in wasting your money on a book.

 #355991  by JoeG
 
Railroad.net has an article on airbrakes in the Features section of the homepage. Here's the link: RRnet airbrake article
I am often confused when I read articles on airbrake operation. Next time I read an airbrake article that I have questions about, I'll drop you a line, Mr UPRR Engineer.

 #356207  by ExEMDLOCOTester
 
Aji-tater

That is a down to earth explanation, ever thought of technical writing?

If no one else steps up to the plate about Blended Brake, I'll tackle it when I get some time. Kinda busy today....

 #356617  by slchub
 
I work for the RR and STILL ask dumb questions! Great article Aji-tater!

 #356670  by Aji-tater
 
Thank you! There are people who know a lot more about the fine points than I do but I thought a real basic explanation might be helpful to those who are just starting out, or those who enjoy railroads as a hobby but don't get the chance to learn first hand.

Any time you're feeling real smart and intelligent, sit down and try to understand how the various parts themselves work. "As pressure drops, the gizmo spring forces the slide to retract, closing off the #29 port and allowing air to flow through the #16 port, causing the diaphragm to move and letting air flow through the .0025" orifice into the actuating chamber". It will have you going "WHAAAAAT??" in a hurry :-D

 #357612  by jg greenwood
 
UPRR engineer wrote:I dont mind what anyone asks, as long as they dont cross the line. I think its kinda cool that i have the answers, wish it happened more in the Operations part. My door is always open here, so theres no sense in wasting your money on a book.
As I said long ago, you're a legend in your own mind, aren't you, DUDE? How in this world do you find a hat big enough to fit your inflated head??!! I'm so glad to hear that you excluded operations! Do you recall not knowing the speed restrictions for empty bulk-head flats, for YOUR railroad? I'll go with a book, thank you! :wink:

 #357652  by pennsy
 
Hi,

Great treatise on brakes.

Some time ago, some "buddies" of mine on the LIRR were milling around looking lost. Seems that the Engineman on their RS-3 pulled a stupid and broke the line going to the cars they were switching and shifting. So, his engine had brakes, per your explanation, but he could not control the brakes on the cars he was working with. Ipso Facto, a useless engine. He had been directed to return his engine to the Jamaica repair facility and a new engine, and engineman was to be dispatched to the site, the Hicksville yard. We all had a good lunch while the new engine got to the scene.

 #357757  by conrail_engineer
 
xjqcf wrote:Nice concise description.

I've got an air brake question I've always wanted answered concerning a prohibited practice. From time to time I've heard about the use a "wedge" by the engineer, but never understood what was being wedged and why. As a non-rail the only thing I can think of is keeping the independent brake bailed off. So what's the real explanation? Why is this done and what is the risk that makes this a prohibited practice (like the wedge could get jammed thus nullifying the use of the independent?).

Thanks
Never heard the term - what it made me think of was, jamming something in to hold the Deadman Pedal down. Deadman Pedals are just about all gone, replaced by the computerized Alerters.

As to keeping the Independent bailed off...no reason to, since the only time the Automatic (trainline) Brake puts air on the locomotive is when the brake pipe pressure DROPS. When that happens withOUT an application, it's sit-up-and-notice time.

Otherwise, it would be hard on the valving and cost a LOT of air off the locomotive air plumbing circuits. With no other value in operation.

 #357812  by Aji-tater
 
The wedge was sometimes applied to keep the independent in "bailed-off" position. Locomotive brakes tend to "grab" quicker and harder than the brakes on the cars. On a long train, it takes quite a bit of time for the air reduction to propagate all the way back and for the retarding force to take effect. If loco brakes are allowed to apply without bailing off, the result is usually a heavy "run-in" of slack. In the old days it was a sure way to have an angry conductor storming after the engineer, once he picked himself up off the caboose floor.

By applying a wedge, there is no noticable effect as the train is going, and when the brakes were applied the engineer did not have to make the extra effort to bail off. Technically this comes under the heading of tampering or interfering with the intended function of the brakes and is a no-no. I'm not saying it never is done, just that it's prohibited :wink:

 #358232  by UPRR engineer
 
jg greenwood wrote:
UPRR engineer wrote:I dont mind what anyone asks, as long as they dont cross the line. I think its kinda cool that i have the answers, wish it happened more in the Operations part. My door is always open here, so theres no sense in wasting your money on a book.
As I said long ago, you're a legend in your own mind, aren't you, DUDE? How in this world do you find a hat big enough to fit your inflated head??!! I'm so glad to hear that you excluded operations! Do you recall not knowing the speed restrictions for empty bulk-head flats, for YOUR railroad? I'll go with a book, thank you! :wink:
Know what i do when i get a change on the rules? ......I throw it in my grip. Thanks for coming in. :-D

 #358243  by ExEMDLOCOTester
 
Blended Brake

Here is the way I remember the Amtrak BB order in the late 70', early 80's. I'll need to describe some hardware to describe how the air interfaces with the electronics. I will attempt to keep this as simple as possible.

There is a Blended Brake module (40 Series) that interfaced with the dynamic brake that operated in much the same way as the Dynamic brake handle on the control stand. The BB module had sensors called Pressure Transducers (PT's) that converted air pressure to a voltage utilized by the BB module. A brake reduction commanded by the Engineer at the Automatic Brake Valve (ABV) (Dropping pressure) caused the PT input pressure to drop causing a voltage decrease at the PT on the voltage end. When a pre determined voltage drop was detected by the BB module, the unit was automatically switched to Dynamic Brake mode, minimum 24T (24T is a train line signal, referencing the commanded dynamic breaking effort) voltage. (I do not remember the power throttle position but I think it needed to be at Idle.) When the Engineer further reduced BP pressure, the PT's would reduce the voltage to the BB module, and increase the voltage reference to the dynamic brake module, increasing the dynamic brake effort, and releasing the Locomotive brakes (Bail off the independant). Other electronic tasks were happening in the backround to proportional air valves tied in with the system that I don't need to explain to keep it simple. ABV reductions increased Dynamic braking and ABV increases decreased Dynamic braking. When the ABV is returned to full pressure, the dynamic brake disengages and the unit returns to power. I remember the speedometer interfaced with one revision of the BB module, but I only remember 1 unit with it.
This is as accurate as I remember. Please don't shoot... :wink:

 #358296  by clearblock
 
That is an interesting description of a blended brake system which is something I am not familiar with.

It obviously applies only to passenger equipment with graduated relase brakes. I wonder how the system is calibrated to get the proper correlation between the dynamic and automatic brakes. I would think the amount of locomotive dynamic vs car automatic brake application would vary depending on the type and number of cars in the consist, type and number of locomotives and other factors.

I assume the blended feature could be easily turned on or off as desired. I can see many situations where the engineer would want not the dynamics to kick in every time the automatic is applied.

 #358302  by ExEMDLOCOTester
 
clearblock wrote:That is an interesting description of a blended brake system which is something I am not familiar with.

It obviously applies only to passenger equipment with graduated relase brakes. I wonder how the system is calibrated to get the proper correlation between the dynamic and automatic brakes. I would think the amount of locomotive dynamic vs car automatic brake application would vary depending on the type and number of cars in the consist, type and number of locomotives and other factors.

I assume the blended feature could be easily turned on or off as desired. I can see many situations where the engineer would want not the dynamics to kick in every time the automatic is applied.
I wonder how the system is calibrated to get the proper correlation between the dynamic and automatic brakes
It was a zero to 10 volt signal (0-10vdc) 10 volts equaled complete release and 2 volts equaled full application. I am off by some but the correlation is that both signals are (or should be) linear. Less than 2 volts was big hole and PCS was in control.

I assume the blended feature could be easily turned on or off as desired.
I remember a circuit breaker on the cb panel and a switch on the control stand

 #358453  by jg greenwood
 
UPRR engineer wrote:
jg greenwood wrote:
UPRR engineer wrote:I dont mind what anyone asks, as long as they dont cross the line. I think its kinda cool that i have the answers, wish it happened more in the Operations part. My door is always open here, so theres no sense in wasting your money on a book.
As I said long ago, you're a legend in your own mind, aren't you, DUDE? How in this world do you find a hat big enough to fit your inflated head??!! I'm so glad to hear that you excluded operations! Do you recall not knowing the speed restrictions for empty bulk-head flats, for YOUR railroad? I'll go with a book, thank you! :wink:
Know what i do when i get a change on the rules? ......I throw it in my grip. Thanks for coming in. :-D
Perfectly acceptable behavior for those seldom venturing beyond the confines of Y/L! You're welcome........ :wink: