Amtrak Sunset East Reactivation Proposal (Including City of New Orleans Extension)

https://amp.sunherald.com/news/business ... 84112.html

...

A map outlining possible new service — revealed at a public meeting of the Amtrak board of directors Dec. 1 — shows Amtrak extending across the Florida panhandle again from Pensacola through Tallahassee and to Jacksonville on the East Coast.

By opening the panhandle route again, passengers could ride Amtrak from the Coast to Orlando, Tampa, Fort Lauderdale, West Palm Beach, The Villages and other locations served by Amtrak.

Amtrak has about 20 train stations, mostly on the East Coast. Tampa is the only city near the Gulf of Mexico with a station.

...

From the immediately linked article:

By opening the panhandle route again, passengers could ride Amtrak from the Coast to Orlando, Tampa, Fort Lauderdale, West Palm Beach, The Villages and other locations served by Amtrak.

The Villages is located (if it even has what could be called a central location) maybe three miles to the East of the SAL and about five miles North of Wildwood. So in order for that to be served by rail, passenger would have to be resumed over the SAL. Guarantee you Chessie will have her claws ready to strike before that would ever occur.

Again I note, Florida appears to be quite pro-passenger rail so long as it isn't Amtrak. Both Tri Rail and Sun Rail are considering expansions and, even if I'm astounded, Brightline is moving ahead. Brightline could easily become a ward of the State (it has never "made numbers" as its present Disneyland joy ride), which would give Florida the largest intra state passenger rail coverage not involving Amtrak.

Although the Villages is no longer close to any present Amtrak service, it actually has an official Amtrak stop at a WAWA gas station which is for a through bus service connecting to the Meteor at Jacksonville. The old SAL station still exists in Wildwood. It is undergoing renovation at this time and I can't tell if it's going to be repurposed for CSX use or actually still going to be an AMbus waiting room.

As far as the revived Sunset Route, wasn't the latest plan to run the City of New Orleans through to Florida and not restore the Sunset through operation?

Not sure if they're looking at a CoNO extension, or an extension of the Mobile corridor service, or even a separate route.

Jeff Smith wrote: ↑Sat Jan 14, 2023 9:23 am https://amp.sunherald.com/news/business ... 84112.html

Some more interesting tidbits in the article, including:

CSX sold the route after Katrina to Florida Gulf & Atlantic Railroad, Tilley said, which since has come under control of an investment company, he said, and is under new management.

The route covers 373 miles of track from Pensacola to Baldwin, Florida, just west of Jacksonville.

Hmmm...

• From Mobile up the M & M Subdivision
• At Flomaton switch to PD Subdivision,
• At Pensacola, switch to P&A Subdivision and hand-off to the FG&A RR.
• FG&A to Baldwin... going to need to rebuild a cross junction or put in a fly-over.
• CSX Jacksonville Terminal Subdivision into Jacksonville itself and then up to the station.

Oh, and you get to wye the train right near Jacksonville!

Make it a separate train line and force a layover in New Orleans.

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Sat Jan 14, 2023 2:32 pm Oh, and you get to wye the train right near Jacksonville!

Mr. Wolf, two points regarding your captioned observation.

I can recall riding the SAL Meteor Jan 67, how it "meandered" into Jax and eventually backed into JT.

I can further recall rides during '02 and '04 on Sunset East backing into the existing Amtrak station.

There are posts on other sites noting that these Sunset east proposals point out that there is a major problem with rail service passenger and freight to Florida. As of now all rail traffic to Florida has to pass thru the Baldwin / Jacksonville gateway. So CSX runs all its Florida traffic thru Baldwin and CSX & NS run their FEC traffic thru Jacksonville and over the FEC St Johns river bridge. Bridge is ~ 18 miles from Baldwin. So, though unlikely a major weather event could cut both routes to Florida for a major length of time.

At one time the SOU RR ran a Florida train from Cincinnatti - ATL - Valdosta - Lake City (crossing SAL ) directly to Palatka, Fl ( NS, SOU RR, GS&F ) connecting to FEC onto MIA.: Lake City south abandoned by NS but have no idea what status of ROW is. FEC still has do not tresspass on their part. If the route from Lake City to Hampton, Fl where it crosses the CSX *SAL) line to Wildwood was restored then passenger travel to mid Florida ( Orlando, etc ) could be cut by almost 4-1/2 hours. As well A Cinci - ATL - Florida train could use that route as well. Just cannot imagine JAX that much a destination for these routes.

More importantly it gives freight another way to / from Florida with an alternate route.

west point wrote: ↑Sat Jan 14, 2023 10:00 pm At one time the SOU RR ran a Florida train from Cincinnatti - ATL - Valdosta - Lake City (crossing SAL ) directly to Palatka, Fl ( NS, SOU RR, GS&F ) connecting to FEC onto MIA

The Cincinnati-Florida train noted by (Officer/Captain?) West Point was "The Royal Palm":

https://www.american-rails.com/56.html

Such ran over the CNOTP, or Rat Hole, and "not exactly" a candidate for HSR.

Norfolk Southern is not the Southern.

It is not friendly to passenger rail.

Anything Amtrak tries to do must consider this basic fact.

Colonel, why do you think the SRY was passenger train friendly?

Considering how all the "get 'em off" stunts they pulled such as the Fort Mill-Warrenville "Augusta Special" and the "Birmingham Special" terminating at York AL so that the trains would terminate in State regulatory jurisdiction that SRY (under WGC might I add) essentially "owned", anyone consider them "passenger friendly"?

They had managed to chop enough off between the calendar '69 RPSA70 measuring period for the entry fee to Amtrak and A-Day, that it wasn't worth it for them to join.

So they didn't.

They were as friendly as UP, ATSF BN. No, that’s not very friendly, but it’s better than PC and N&W.

They wanted out, but they did it on their terms. That means they signed a use contract on their terms, and Amtrak has to remember that.

John_Perkowski wrote: ↑Mon Jan 16, 2023 9:25 pm They were as friendly as UP, ATSF BN. No, that’s not very friendly, but it’s better than PC and N&W.

Colonel, so far as I'm concerned, the only one of those "friendlies" you note, was ATSF. #17(DD in "Santa Feese"; 30 in Amtrakese), or otherwise the Super Chief/El Capitan departing A-Day Eve, which never compromised an amenity.

BN, with their combined North Coast, Builder, Zephyr resulted in the withdrawal of the Obs. Lounge on all of those trains, and with the NP only offering a "Lounge in the Sky" that was little more than tables being fitted in the Dome and one Single BR becoming a service area. My final pre-Amtrak ride was #10, Zephyr, Savanna to CUS. Food Service was down to a PC Snack Bar.

While I know as a kid, you had a great ride on the City of St Louis, the UP really created a monster with their City of Everywhere at the end. Yes, I know they had two yard crews and plenty of supervision at Ogden (a "day off" activity of mine when at Hill AFB '68-'69 was to get down there and watch the show), but it still was some monstertrain. Further, the Dome Diner was gone, just as they had more people to feed.

The state of Florida is supportive of the return of service to the panhandle but only if its federally funded through the long distance study - would be more likely to be a CONO extension or a standalone route than a re-extension of the Sunset. Extending the CONO or doing a standalone day running route would be much more usable than extending the Sunset again which only runs 3 a week and all the lateness that that train sees. Florida is not interested in state funding for that line. The state is also interested in examining Amtrak corridor funding between Tampa - Miami, Orlando - Miami, and Tampa - Orlando - Jacksonville along the current routes of the Silver service, but only if the local county and municipal governments take the lead and contribute to the projects. Florida is not interested in funding on its own. Another thing that might come through the LD study which Amtrak itself has floated is splitting the Silver service trains in Jacksonville with Miami bound passengers taking the FEC and Tampa and Orlando passengers going the current route - an alternative would be one train going the FEC and the other going the other route.

lordsigma12345 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 17, 2023 3:54 pm Another thing that might come through the LD study which Amtrak itself has floated is splitting the Silver service trains in Jacksonville with Miami bound passengers taking the FEC and Tampa and Orlando passengers going the current route - an alternative would be one train going the FEC and the other going the other route.

I think running down the FEC is a no-brainer. Those are now missed major population centers plus add a major new cruiseport into the mix. Jacksonville is considering rehabbing the old Jacksonville Terminal which could be used for trains running down the FEC including the extended CONO which would eliminate the back-up move needed to the current Amtrak station. But that would miss the Orlando market which is not good unless that new train is also split at Jacksonville which would create a lot of interesting new city pairs.

And to throw an unlikely twist into the pot, a CONO with autoracks could make a new AutoTrain from the midwest to Sanford but that's another story. I know it would be a two night journey but the thousands of snow-birds want their cars down in Florida and it would take two or three days for many of them to drive the distance anyway so it isn't that unreasonable. The midwest is the second largest market for snowbirds going to and coming from Florida.

bostontrainguy wrote: ↑Wed Jan 18, 2023 9:35 am And to throw an unlikely twist into the pot, a CONO with autoracks could make a new AutoTrain from the midwest to Sanford but that's another story. I know it would be a two night journey but the thousands of snow-birds want their cars down in Florida and it would take two or three days for many of them to drive the distance anyway so it isn't that unreasonable. The midwest is the second largest market for snowbirds going to and coming from Florida.

I wouldn't touch CONO's current schedule nor extend it with a possible massive delay. New Orleans is a terminal.

Instead:

• Rename the current AutoTrain as the Atlantic AutoTrain
• Make the Sunset East portion the Gulf Wind as a separate train (actual train, so reuse the name)
• Make a direct Chicago-Sanford AutoTrain and name it the Dixie AutoTrain (based on previous train names)
• Make a Chicago-Miami LD train and name it the City of Miami... um, no, use the Royal Palm instead.

Having a Dixie AutoTrain and a Royal Palm along this stretch would be better and connect a lot of cities including Nashville.

But we're getting off-track here and we should be talking about the Gulf Wind instead.