Amtrak HHP-8 Discussion: Use, Reliability, Disposition

west point wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 4:14 pm AM sorry for the poor wording. What I meant was a jumper ACS to ACS. However, after reading the posts and worse the WIKI cannot believe. Sounds like the software has probably been patched so many times that no one really can understand it. In reading the system referring it as a -16 makes one wonder if that means the OS is 16 bits? If that OH! MY GOSH. Change Gosh to whatever expletive.

OK, I'm not the only who had to look it up, and found this may have components that date to os2 warp.
I wonder if its 32 bit. Which is still out of date.
Anyone know if one could get a demo version as a Vm or container?

Mod note: Can we circle back to Hippos please?

I haven't actively programmed anything in years, but by about 1980 or so I was finished with doing so on 16 bit systems. Memory management was beyond painful, but sort of fun in a crazy way. 32 bit systems were a huge improvement, 64 even better (especially for database work). As to the interoperability issues (especially on identical equipment), that seems really strange to me, assuming understand this correctly.

SRich wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 12:41 pm

CSRR573 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 11:21 am I think it was 67 that came into Boston the other day with an ACS leading two P42s. I thought a P42 couldn't lead an ACS

It's quit simple. Set the P42 in isolate and the engine and traction motors doesn't operate.

No it isnt. You get a constant trailing unit fault or I/o Station defect 60 day timer started.

Updates are done by Siemens personnel. yes, they do not work anymore. Back when they were new you could put two ACS together or hook an ACS to a diesel and operate vice versa. I personally operated trains with both configs. one even being on a work train service where the diesel was needed for extra air compressor power for the old air dump hoppers. Operated from ACS with the GP15 in trail. You can clearly hear when those throttles respond, it worked. It seems like whatever they did to try and fix small problems made much larger problems.

Please dont get me wrong, these things had issues from the get go with MU. And yes, this is all on topic of the situation because if ACSs cant work properly with each other or diesels what makes anybody think its going to even talk to an HHP-8 when those also had their own issues of being able to talk to each other and other locomotives!

AM: do not answer this if there are disclosure problems. Why is Amtrak not holding Siemens' feet to the fire? Are the Siemens tecks even able to understand the problems or are they fairly newbies? Should there be recognition that previous updates have caused some problems by both parties? Do you see that all combinations of multiple units or do sometimes they work even with identical lash ups? Is there any delays in upgrading all units quickly or are the updates being strung out. Worse are there jumps in updates with say revision A in loco 1 revision B in loco 2 with 2 not having revision A yet?

Is it possible that anyone has returned the software to original factory settings? Then tested the lash ups?

The siemens USA people have no idea what they are doing. They have no history with siemens prior to the ACS. I dont think they even understand railroads. We are on version 11.4 which is the worst version of the software yet. There is only a handfull of locos with this, and now its various versions of that as well. Version 10 used to be able to talk to other version 10s, 11 could lead a 10 but not trail one. Now it seems like whatever sub software they did on the IO stations has broken the ability to talk between machines, but somehow works with cabcars.

Theres also too many issues to deal with at once. There are other underlying issues i cannot discuss related to rules, other host railroads etc that are causing even more chaos with whats being programmed in the software. the nonsense needs to stop. Its a locomotive. It needs to locomote and not be doing all this excess thinking. Ive demanded numerious times that the software version 11 locos be turned back to version 10. There is not a single engineer out there that likes the newest version.

ApproachMedium wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 1:17 am There is not a single engineer out there that likes the newest version.

You can say that again…. Whoever came up with the idea to make the TOD screen change automatically when you move the throttle to and from off needs a a new job! Version 10 seemed to be the sweet spot but after that it seems like they just found a way to ruin things. I can’t wait to see how this HHP experiment turns out.

GirlOnTheTrain wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 6:56 pm Mod note: Can we circle back to Hippos please?

I think a software category discussion thread is in order.

Or perhaps a general technology thread.

There's nothing wrong with a 16 bit operating system in a proprietary closed network setting like a locomotive... you're not using it to surf the internet... it's there to control mechanical equipment.

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ApproachMedium wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 1:17 am The siemens USA people have no idea what they are doing. They have no history with siemens prior to the ACS.

Trying getting parts from them or asking for assistance on anything!

Several years ago one of the explanations the Maryland MTA gave to me about the lack of electric weekend Penn Line services was that they couldn’t use HHP-8s on these services due to the lack of electrification in Martin State Airport Yard, and that the Noise Abatement Order for Baltimore Penn complicated the necessary shunting and marshaling needed to put electric trains away and then prep them for service.

If/when the HHP-8s do start operating the majority of weekend services, how will these supposed problems be addressed? Are the HHP-8s reliable enough to shunt regularly at Baltimore Penn or any yard/siding in MD other than Ivy City without breaking down? Is there any available space in the existing yard or sidings at Penn to provide any required infrastructure for a stabled HHP-8?

So problems with HHP-8s, Baltimore etc. Baltimore has no ground power for weekend and overnight layovers, so all diesels get shut down or rely on an electric to provide heat/ac. Baltimore also has no mechanical people there friday nights or saturday nights. Martin airport works every day, as far as i know. They also have that yard off the main there. Service to and from that location i guess works because trains can start there, run back and fourth all day and return to the airport yard at the end of the tour and not disturb any of the parked trains in baltimore penn.

Now, if they dedicated the electric sets to run out of dc on the weekends maybe this wouldnt be an issue. Turn them on 8 and 9 all day long. The Wedge yard, is not wired (in DC) so that can be a problem for overnight storage. I think in the end the previous unreliablilty of a small fleet of 6 locos with only ever 3 really working at a time provides a problem of when do we fix them?? The weekends work for that and previously ivy city was the only place capable of such. From what i seem to understand only 2 of the HHP8s had the upgrades/modifications done to them. The rest have not. The person doing the work was very expensive and i dont think they ever got past the 4911 after covid.

Wait, There was ONE person who was doing the refit? I was under the impression that most of the MARC fleet was getting rebuilt. How come wedge yard, or martins aren't wired? I'd think with the reduced use, this would be the best time to do so. It's not like a new substation would be required, like when riverside gets wired.