Amtrak considers narrower seats

WashingtonPark wrote: ↑Wed Feb 09, 2022 10:42 am "Unfortunately, seat width also decreases from about 21 inches on the Amfleet and Horizon cars to about 19.1 inches. Since I rode the Venture and Amfleet back to back, I could absolutely notice less padding and narrower seats on the newer coaches."

Whoa... wait a minute. 21 inches? That can't be right. Amtrak says they're 23 inches... but shrinking to 19.1 inches?

Ahhh here we go. Railway Age posted a more detailed brocure. The isle is 32 inches wide. Doing some math and assuming a 10 foot wide interior cabin... that's 22" seats, 2-2 arrangement.

19" means a 9 foot wide interior cabin... which I can't think is possible. That would mean the side walls are 9" thick, on a train that's 10.5 feet wide. I can only see that if the exterior doors are pocket doors, and these swing *OUT*.

Edit to update: Talked with the author over Twitter. They say the number is from Illinois DOT. I recommended they take a tape measure the next time around, because usually these government orders are not specified down to an inch of their life, LIKE THEY SHOULD BE!

Traingeek3629 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 09, 2022 4:55 pm Within the NEC, people choose Amtrak over flying because of the added comfort and convenience, even if it means the trip might take slightly longer (in the case of NY-BOS or DC-NY). Making the train feel more like a plane is going to decrease ridership.

I seriously doubt it.

People who take the train tend to be going city center to city center and will continue to do so regardless of the seating change... Then you can add in not having to wear a seat belt, being able to be up and about the entire trip and being able to stay reasonably connected either via their devices or phone will continue to be one of the benefits of taking the train vs. flying...

Amtrak is betting that seat width is inconsequential to 99.5% of the travelers. And I suspect they're right. AIrlines like Spirit have been putting in slimmer seats that don't recline, and people keep flying them, so....

It's not inconsequential to me and I believe many others, but to your point as to whether this will stop myself and others from riding, I believe you're assessment that it will not is correct. It would take a lot to get me off the train and onto a plane.

Narrower seats would be a big negative for me. I FREQUENTLY travel from NJ (MetroPark) to WAS by AMTRAK and my recent trips have been less than satisfactory. First, the current reduced train frequency is a negative, I prefer ACELA but not as many stop at MET and the regionals are slow and almost always late. In addition, all trains I have ridden in the past 6 months have been sold out which makes seating a problem- even on ACELA where I have been put at the “table” seats which are uncomfortable for someone who is 6’2” in terms of leg room. No ability to change seats either, even before the trip. Also with the full trains, it is difficult to change trains if your schedule changes.
Currently United has 18 flights from Newark to Reagan (which is actually better for me than Union Station) from 6 AM to 8 PM and I am very likely to chose to fly on my next trip later this month. I need a rental car and at the airport they open early and close late whereas at Union Station, they are a 8 AM to 6 PM operation and late trains have put me very close to that 6 PM closing time!
Narrower seats would definitely deter me from taking AMTRAK.

Okay, a bit more digging revealed the answer: The side walls are 4” thick.

10’ 6” wide frame, or 126”. Take our 4” on ether side and 32” for the aisle. 86” left over, divide by 4, and you get 21.5” wide seats.

You’re losing 1.5” per seat on a commuter level train so that wheelchair-bound passengers can get to the cafe car and grab a snack.

To quote the World’s Foremost Authority, “That’s reasonable, isn’t it?”

The width at armrest level and floor level should be 6-12" different... is that 10'6" at frame or midbody?


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eolesen wrote: ↑Sat Feb 12, 2022 7:50 pm The width at armrest level and floor level should be 6-12" different... is that 10'6" at frame or midbody?

Frame, and if I remember the PIIRA regulations, that's the maximum width train cars can have.

The cars clearly flare out slightly, similar to the Viewliners and unlike a Pullman or Horizon.

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With the fuselage body, do Amfleets and Metroliners have more shoulder and hip room than Comet/Horizon and
other slab box designs?

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 8:59 am .....
22"-24". You can just fit a max-sized luggage case in the isles.

sigh....People, there IS a difference between "isles" and ''aisles"....................

It’s bizarre to me to read folks arguing against this. No one likes a smaller seat, but it’s accessibility. A minor reduction in personal comfort is more important than others’ ability to move about the train at all?

Funny how I recall The Late Randy Resor NellieBly reporting here (he was in a position "to know") how one of the delays in inaugurating the existing Acela sets was over seat width. It pitted one faction in the conference rooms of 400 N Capitol (then Amtrak HQ, youngsters) arguing that Americans were getting "wider in the girth" vs. the ADA interests (and maybe throwing in those who now must have their "steamer trunks on wheels" luggage).

Wider seats apparently prevailed; wheelchaired passengers could still access their seats placed at the end of the cars.

Randy, who I knew "face to face", left us over eight years ago; and I guess during that the time, the ADA interests have gained additional strength. Indicative of that is this TV series "A Million Little Things", which could be considered Disney's (ABC) answer to Comcast's (NBC) "This Is Us". I do watch and like both shows.

The "Million..." cast is comprised of characters of which two are Black, one suffers severe Depression, two are Asian, one is Gay, one is Lesbian, one is disabled, and two have cancer in remission. Talk about the diversity that simply was not in place when the existing Acelas were placed in revenue service.

Oh I'm sure that that diversity (of ethnicity, sexual orientation, and illness) were all well represented on Amtrak trains of 2000-2001.

I do take your point that obesity rate has been on the rise in U.S. for several decades now.

TAN: Are standard wheelchairs also getting wider because modern disabled people are bigger?

Mr. Boylan, there are definitely wheelchairs out there for those with "wider" girths.

I noted one of such recently when I was at the hospital for a routine out-patient procedure.