Alstom to Retrofit some M7's into Battery EMU's (Was:M7s at Oyster Bay!)

railfaned wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 2:24 pm We have to let this battery test run, to see what problems they encounter. I see the need for a short 3rd rail at Oyster Bay to charge the batteries when they layup the M7's there.

That need is definitely a good setup as LIRR can recharge late at night when grid demand is lower. That is another reason if DEMUs are used off the present NEC electric that with DEMUs lay overs they could raise a PAN onto a short section of CAT to allow the grid to maintain the loco and cars of a train. Then shut off diesel(s) eliminating most noise other than cooling fans when needed and air compressors,

This is my first take on this particular topic/project. I have to say, this isn't that bad of an idea, but like many said it isn't for every diesel branch. Aside from the Central Branch hopefully getting electrified by the time the 2020-2024 Capital Plan is done, I am worried about the Lithium Ion batteries that we could possibly be using if this test is successful. What I do see is the following:

1.) M7 and M9 cars stopping at all Oyster Bay Branch stations.
2.) The cars stopping at all Port Jefferson Branch stations.
3.) The cars stopping at stations East of Babylon all the way to Patchogue.
4.) For the Ronkonkoma Branch, only to Riverhead.
5.) The EMU consists will be no longer than 6 cars.
6.) If successful, then the Gas Turbine GT1 cars from the late-60's will be all the more a large failure that we already know of.

Logistics are a bit of a concern:

1.) Charging stations.
2.) Track layouts since the Port Jefferson Branch East of Huntington is similar to the Ronkonkoma Branch before 2018.
3.) The length of the platforms, most of them are 2-4 cars long. Although Bay Shore, and all PJ Branch stations can platform 8 to a full 12-car consist.
4.) Obviously recycling the batteries.
5.) How much we will shrink our carbon footprints.

now, you're not worried about LION batteries blowing up or catching fire underneath you while you're caught in the car with the doors stuck closed? All kidding aside, I am cringing a bit, keeping in mind LIRR maintenance. And since M7, etc. cars have much lower capacity than double deckers, you need longer trains to make up for the reduced capacity.

photobug56 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 23, 2021 11:32 pm now, you're not worried about LION batteries blowing up or catching fire underneath you while you're caught in the car with the doors stuck closed? All kidding aside, I am cringing a bit, keeping in mind LIRR maintenance. And since M7, etc. cars have much lower capacity than double deckers, you need longer trains to make up for the reduced capacity.

I'm not worried about the Lithium Ion batteries blowing up or catching fire, I'm worried about what we are going to do when it comes to recycling them, and the fact that when disposing of it in anyway it is poisonous to humans and animals. Is there also any way in which we could use add third-rail shoes to the C3 cars by converting them from being pulled by diesels to having them charge Li Ion batteries, because that would allow more seats, better flexibility, and make up for broken down equipment?

, I'm worried about what we are going to do when it comes to recycling them, and the fact that when disposing of it in anyway it is poisonous to humans and animals.

Someone should ask the auto industry what they are doing with their LION batteries!

Does anyone know if Metro-North is planning on doing the same? They could use a good case for a test pair of BEMU trains and their DM fleet is also approaching the end of their life.

photobug56 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 23, 2021 11:32 pm now, you're not worried about LION batteries blowing up or catching fire underneath you while you're caught in the car with the doors stuck closed? All kidding aside, I am cringing a bit, keeping in mind LIRR maintenance. And since M7, etc. cars have much lower capacity than double deckers, you need longer trains to make up for the reduced capacity.

As I understand it, the problems with Li-ion batteries are in the quality control in manufacturing. There's thin layer of mylar separating the chemicals, and some corrupt Chinese company used paper, for example. That did not turn out well.

Wikipedia says they can be recycled, at some cost.

robelybasis wrote:Does anyone know if Metro-North is planning on doing the same? They could use a good case for a test pair of BEMU trains and their DM fleet is also approaching the end of their life.

Full transparency, any major change they try to implement within the MTA is on the Metro North side. I'm surprised they didn't try that here first. That ties into Metro North having its roots with the progressive New York Central and LIRR being aligned with the more rigid Pennsylvania Railroad. Whether it's a major work rule change or large equipment modification the MTA would normally try to attempt on Metro North first.

Does anybody have a timeline for when the first pair is supposed to be completed and when they will start testing? What chargers will be installed and where?

robelybasis wrote: ↑Sat Jun 05, 2021 1:04 pm Does anybody have a timeline for when the first pair is supposed to be completed and when they will start testing? What chargers will be installed and where?

They'd be in the testing phase some time next year; there's an 8 month analysis period prior to outfitting a 2-car set with batteries. Where the charging sites will be is anyone's guess at this point.

And to confirm the bit about Metro-North:

The LIRR will share program details with Metro-North Railroad.

"This is an exciting technology with implications for Metro-North," said Catherine Rinaldi, president of MTA Metro-North Railroad. "We will be working with the LIRR as this technology test advances."

Work on the program, being conducted with Alstom, will begin within the next month.

https://abc7ny.com/long-island-rail-roa ... /10528588/

Battery M7s might work north of Croton or Southeast, and such modified M8s might work in Danbury.

robelybasis wrote: ↑Sat Jun 05, 2021 1:04 pm Does anybody have a timeline for when the first pair is supposed to be completed and when they will start testing? What chargers will be installed and where?

They can recharge on the fly using the 3rd rail. Then a 3rd rail could be installed at terminals outside of electrified territories.

Has anyone heard about an update for this? Have any cars been shipped off property or is this being done on the property?

I am looking forward to this because I'm hoping it's succesful for Oyster Bay and possibly Port Jefferson, or even Babylon to Patchogue. This would free up the diesels for increased service East of Patchogue and East of Ronkonkoma, which is particularly poorly serviced.

I haven't heard any further updates about the possible battery powered M7s. It would be nice. I would love to see them first run on Pt. Jefferson Line trains-it would be great to possibly have all of them use BEMUs. The Pt. Jefferson is one of those lines where many of the trains that use that line take too long. Maybe every train that starts out in Pt. Jefferson can run local to Huntington and then stop at Hicksville and Mineola before stopping at Jamaica and after Jamaica run to NYP. I'm not really so sure about the Oyster Bay Line using BEMUs for all of their trains given the fact that that's a line that isn't very fast and basically runs mainly in a north and south orientation. I could certainly see the BEMUs also operating on trains running as far east as Patchogue and maybe even Speonk.

I heard that Alstom is supposed to acquire a few M7s soon and start refitting them with batteries. Not sure exactly when, but sometime soon.