ALP-45DP's - Usage and Delivery

Ken S. wrote:Train 854 was being pushed by 4520 today.

Haven't seen that one in awhile. Shows you how far technology has come when the PL42s get their behinds whooped by the 45s in terms of continuous tractive effort.

Jtgshu wrote:

Fan Railer wrote:

Jtgshu wrote:Thanks bean...brain fart there....

1.21 Gigawatts is when you have 2 ALP46As powering a 6 car Comet set on your go home train! New York to Long Branch in an hour!! Woooot!!!

Or that one time they had 2 46As and a 46 sandwiching a 7 car multilevel. Ludicrous speed, GOOOOO!!!!!!

If you don't mind me asking an off topic question, JT, what does the operator manual for the PL42AC say the continuous tractive rating is, and at what speed? Is it really only 27,000 lbs? I would think that is the final effort at maximum speed, since, even the Genesis has a higher continuous rating than that, and at 38 mph. I would think a newer locomotive and also AC powered would have better tractive characteristics and an older DC powered locomotive in the same category (semi-high speed commuter / long distance application).

I don't have my manuals handy, but Ill try to remember and keep an eye on it later on to see what "real time" numbers it comes up with. But I think the 27k is final effort at track speed. I think its roughly 7k for each axle. When starting off, I think the maximum is around 72k, with computer showing about 18k per axle, but don't quote me

From what I was able to get is about 20-22K at track speed, while starting off, the max was 50k. I thought it was higher than that, but it seemed to be right on par with how other 42s run, but ill keep an eye on it and check another one another time.

Jtgshu wrote:

Jtgshu wrote:

Fan Railer wrote:

Jtgshu wrote:Thanks bean...brain fart there....

1.21 Gigawatts is when you have 2 ALP46As powering a 6 car Comet set on your go home train! New York to Long Branch in an hour!! Woooot!!!

Or that one time they had 2 46As and a 46 sandwiching a 7 car multilevel. Ludicrous speed, GOOOOO!!!!!!

If you don't mind me asking an off topic question, JT, what does the operator manual for the PL42AC say the continuous tractive rating is, and at what speed? Is it really only 27,000 lbs? I would think that is the final effort at maximum speed, since, even the Genesis has a higher continuous rating than that, and at 38 mph. I would think a newer locomotive and also AC powered would have better tractive characteristics and an older DC powered locomotive in the same category (semi-high speed commuter / long distance application).

I don't have my manuals handy, but Ill try to remember and keep an eye on it later on to see what "real time" numbers it comes up with. But I think the 27k is final effort at track speed. I think its roughly 7k for each axle. When starting off, I think the maximum is around 72k, with computer showing about 18k per axle, but don't quote me

From what I was able to get is about 20-22K at track speed, while starting off, the max was 50k. I thought it was higher than that, but it seemed to be right on par with how other 42s run, but ill keep an eye on it and check another one another time.

Hmmm, sounds about right? The online numbers say 69K starting effort, but that's assuming a stalled train and max HP at wheel. In regular service, by the time the 710 is spinning at max rpm, the train should already be going around 15-20 mph, so 50K is reasonable. Also, what was the consist on this train? 6 MLVs? Because it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume that the HEP draw lowered the tractive effort by a noticeable amount as well, and the MLs are quite power hungry, apparently. Just a few of my own conjectures.

Yea, thats what I figured as well - they don't reach Max HP until generally about 30mph (depending on the consist, grade, track conditions, etc, of course) - yes it was a 6 ML set. Ive run them where they were loaded down and dragging a lot of cars, (a shop move, etc) and they just pulled and pulled. they weren't providing HEP, but we weren't really at a stall speed, but they were definitely under a heavier load and working harder than in normal pass service. It was a while ago, but IIRC the screen was putting numbers up in the 60s for tractive effort. But again, it was a long time ago, and I don't remember exactly....

At about 20mph they are making just about 3000HP with 6 MLs, with 7 MLs at about 17-18mph they are making 3000HP. They max out at about 4250HP at full load about 903 RPMs. This is on passenger trains while providing HEP. Generally they provide about 85-90 percent of traction power (when showing on the computer screen, there is no ammeter because its AC) when providing HEP to 6 or 7 MLs. With the 5 inverters, 4 for traction and 1 for HEP, I would assume that 10 percent that is missing would be going to HEP. I would also assume that if it was under full HEP load, the meter would show about 80 percent for its traction power reading. I have never had one with that much of an HEP load.

The '45s have similar info on their computer screens, just like the '46s, but I haven't played with one of them in a while, but from what I remember, the numbers were pretty comparable, and the performance was pretty similar. I do personally feel however, the '45s have a superior wheel slip system compared to the '42s so that will make a difference with the numbers and actual performance.

From my experience, the 45s outperform the PL42 in acceleration every time. They are also smoother on the takeoff, and as you said, the wheel slip is better controlled. The only problems I have with them are the pulling apart when going to idle when it's pushing (just like the 46s) and that infernal 9 aspect ACSES cab signal system. You know it's bad when you prefer the SDUs.

haamster wrote:From my experience, the 45s outperform the PL42 in acceleration every time. They are also smoother on the takeoff, and as you said, the wheel slip is better controlled. The only problems I have with them are the pulling apart when going to idle when it's pushing (just like the 46s) and that infernal 9 aspect ACSES cab signal system. You know it's bad when you prefer the SDUs.

In what mode are they faster?

Either.

amtrakowitz wrote:

haamster wrote:From my experience, the 45s outperform the PL42 in acceleration every time. They are also smoother on the takeoff, and as you said, the wheel slip is better controlled. The only problems I have with them are the pulling apart when going to idle when it's pushing (just like the 46s) and that infernal 9 aspect ACSES cab signal system. You know it's bad when you prefer the SDUs.

In what mode are they faster?

If you are comparing the 45s to themselves, generally in electric, since full power is available at the flip of a coin. But even in diesel mode, the 45s would load faster than the 42s since high speed diesels are able to rev up faster than medium speed diesels. I think, from my observation, the 45s are able to bring full power to the wheels in diesel mode (diesels spinning at 1800 rpm) by the time a heavy train is going, say, closer to 10 mph, as opposed to what JT gave above for the 42s. Not to mention we have tractive effort graphs available online for the 45s, and the 46As (which is what I wish we had for the 42s): http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c63/b ... 5/A562.jpg

At least they don't have that software glitch that the 46As have, loading up a few seconds after the input. At Broad Street when the 46A is pushing westbound, that can be painful when the slack that was pulled out by the train rolling downhill comes back in all at once when the locomotive abruptly loads and shoves up hill. No reason why the train starting off should be so rough you feel like you were rear ended at a stoplight.

Here's that last video that took an entire week to process because my computer sucks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Utd1hhUUvBo - New Jersey Transit EXCLUSIVE: Riding ALP-45DP 4509 Powered 8 Car Comet Train 6916 Into New York Penn Station

Fan Railer wrote:Here's that last video that took an entire week to process because my computer sucks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Utd1hhUUvBo - New Jersey Transit EXCLUSIVE: Riding ALP-45DP 4509 Powered 8 Car Comet Train 6916 Into New York Penn Station

Shame you weren't on the engineer's side from newark broad, lot of interesting stuff to see, from the NCS down below to PATH and you can see the NEC for a good bit before you take the waterfront connection onto it from the M&E etc etc.

25Hz wrote:

Fan Railer wrote:Here's that last video that took an entire week to process because my computer sucks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Utd1hhUUvBo - New Jersey Transit EXCLUSIVE: Riding ALP-45DP 4509 Powered 8 Car Comet Train 6916 Into New York Penn Station

Shame you weren't on the engineer's side from newark broad, lot of interesting stuff to see, from the NCS down below to PATH and you can see the NEC for a good bit before you take the waterfront connection onto it from the M&E etc etc.

I know, I've seen it all before. I wanted to be on the side where I could see all of the other 45 powered trains heading back towards Dover.

Fan Railer wrote:Here's that last video that took an entire week to process because my computer sucks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Utd1hhUUvBo - New Jersey Transit EXCLUSIVE: Riding ALP-45DP 4509 Powered 8 Car Comet Train 6916 Into New York Penn Station

Ha. Fan Railer, you and your computer problems. That things been nonstop trouble for ya.

Fanrailer, you sure this isn't you?

Tadman wrote:Fanrailer, you sure this isn't you?

That sounds more like the computer on an ES40DC....