All things Harrisburg (Keystone) Line

seems like it would be 10+5 rather than 10+15. 144 mph would be nice though

New details this morning on the Mount Joy, Pa. station renovation project.

PennDOT officials are putting the Mount Joy Amtrak station on the fast track.

The stage agency on Monday announced funding of $26.1 million for a project that would add covered canopies, parking, lighting, elevators and handicapped-accessible platforms to the borough's station.

PennDOT also wants to award construction contracts for the station project by the end of this year.

http://articles.lancasteronline.com/local/4/248479

Is that really necessary? Who uses Mt Joy?

A number of Lancaster County residents use the station to commute to Harrisburg and even Philadelphia. For many, the station is closer than the Lancaster city station. I believe parking is also free, unlike Lancaster. The articles states "53,000 passengers using the station annually."

Jersey_Mike wrote:Is that really necessary? Who uses Mt Joy?

There's a parking problem at the station. a few local business owners said riders are using CBD parking thus making it hard for their customers to park. the current station is an uncovered, steep wooden staircase down into the cut. a shed over this is absolutely necessary to keep the ice and snow off the stairs. In the long run, it will need to be ADA compliant anyway. I do wish they were putting this $26 million into track or signal upgrades first but yes, I do think this is necessary.

Will this include "high level" platforms for Mt. Joy? Have ridden past this station stop (if one can even call it that) many times, and it would seem that if they are going to go to all the trouble of adding canopies and the like, why not go ahead and rase the platform up - as it is very much like a station in "cavern."

New station platform in Elizabethtown:
http://mst145.rrpicturearchives.net/sho ... id=1942282

Keystone 663 pulling into the station:
http://mst145.rrpicturearchives.net/sho ... id=1942284

Snow & ice covered Metroliner Cab Car leaving the station:
http://mst145.rrpicturearchives.net/sho ... id=1942286

M.T.

The first sight that greets visitors as they drive into Middletown on Route 230 from the Pennsylvania Turnpike or Harrisburg International Airport is an old abandoned warehouse — but someday the gateway to Dauphin County’s oldest community may be a new train station.

The old AP Green warehouse may be torn down to build a “well accommodated’’ train station, says the warehouse’s owner.
James Nardo, who bought the warehouse for about $1 million in 2007, wants to combine the property with a small strip mall he owns next door and turn the entire site into a business complex that would include a hotel, grocery store and restaurants....Emaus Street would be extended to the complex, which Nardo calls Westporte Centre, and then to Main Street, tying the development to Middletown’s business district...“I think it’s going to be a tremendous asset to the borough,’’ said Councilor Diana McGlone...One problem with the airport site is that it’s on the wrong side of the tracks — literally, said one borough official. A freight track runs between the site and the track that Amtrak uses, said Robert Louer, borough council president. Amtrak trains would have to cross it to get to the airport station.

At the AP Green site, “they wouldn’t have to do any shifting of the rails,’’ said Louer. “I think that’s why it’s going to have the highest consideration. That will give Middletown the ace in the hole.’’..If the railroad station is not built on the AP Green site, a convenience store is planned for the spot.
A grocery store chain is “looking seriously’’ at Westporte Centre, while Hardee’s and Wachovia Bank would remain, said Nardo.

http://www.pressandjournal.com/articleD ... px?id=2935

undoubtedly an airport site would be bad for middletown both because they'll get an inferior development at the AP Green site and because the borough would no longer be within walking distance of the station. I can't imagine any legitimate reason they'd go with teh airport site given that it's decidedly un transit oriented AND produces operational headaches.

Suburban Station wrote:

The first sight that greets visitors as they drive into Middletown on Route 230 from the Pennsylvania Turnpike or Harrisburg International Airport is an old abandoned warehouse — but someday the gateway to Dauphin County’s oldest community may be a new train station.

The old AP Green warehouse may be torn down to build a “well accommodated’’ train station, says the warehouse’s owner.
James Nardo, who bought the warehouse for about $1 million in 2007, wants to combine the property with a small strip mall he owns next door and turn the entire site into a business complex that would include a hotel, grocery store and restaurants....Emaus Street would be extended to the complex, which Nardo calls Westporte Centre, and then to Main Street, tying the development to Middletown’s business district...“I think it’s going to be a tremendous asset to the borough,’’ said Councilor Diana McGlone...One problem with the airport site is that it’s on the wrong side of the tracks — literally, said one borough official. A freight track runs between the site and the track that Amtrak uses, said Robert Louer, borough council president. Amtrak trains would have to cross it to get to the airport station.

At the AP Green site, “they wouldn’t have to do any shifting of the rails,’’ said Louer. “I think that’s why it’s going to have the highest consideration. That will give Middletown the ace in the hole.’’..If the railroad station is not built on the AP Green site, a convenience store is planned for the spot.
A grocery store chain is “looking seriously’’ at Westporte Centre, while Hardee’s and Wachovia Bank would remain, said Nardo.

http://www.pressandjournal.com/articleD ... px?id=2935

undoubtedly an airport site would be bad for middletown both because they'll get an inferior development at the AP Green site and because the borough would no longer be within walking distance of the station. I can't imagine any legitimate reason they'd go with teh airport site given that it's decidedly un transit oriented AND produces operational headaches.

The fact that it would sit adjacent to an enormous parking lot is a tremendous advantage. My guess (disclaimer: only a guess) is the percentage of passengers who ride a Keystone train and walked to their station is very very low.

MudLake wrote: The fact that it would sit adjacent to an enormous parking lot is a tremendous advantage. My guess (disclaimer: only a guess) is the percentage of passengers who ride a Keystone train and walked to their station is very very low.

That's an awful point of view for building transit stations. Given that there is no sizable parking lot at the current middletown station I'd say it's probably quite a bit higher at this one than, say, Lancaster that's on the edge of town. More to the point, people driving to the Keystone are likely driving to E-town, Lancaster, and harrisburg and NOT the middletown stop which is less frequent. Putting the stop by the airport makes no sense at all. not only is not walkable to Middletown and requires crossing freight tracks, it would directly cost middletown jobs and economic development. worse, the parking lot you say is the only thing needed for a station can be replicated at the AP Greene site... unless you're anti-town, it makes no sense to locate it at the airport, screwing middletown which has had a train station since the 1830's. one can only hope that US transportation policy has evolved a little. we do enough to discourage people from living in towns without transportation policy putting stations outside of town. the only reason I've even been to middletown was because i could take the train there. took the train to ride the tourist railroad there and had an excellent meal at the brownstone cafe.

Suburban Station wrote:

MudLake wrote: The fact that it would sit adjacent to an enormous parking lot is a tremendous advantage. My guess (disclaimer: only a guess) is the percentage of passengers who ride a Keystone train and walked to their station is very very low.

That's an awful point of view for building transit stations. Given that there is no sizable parking lot at the current middletown station I'd say it's probably quite a bit higher at this one than, say, Lancaster that's on the edge of town. More to the point, people driving to the Keystone are likely driving to E-town, Lancaster, and harrisburg and NOT the middletown stop which is less frequent. Putting the stop by the airport makes no sense at all. not only is not walkable to Middletown and requires crossing freight tracks, it would directly cost middletown jobs and economic development. worse, the parking lot you say is the only thing needed for a station can be replicated at the AP Greene site... unless you're anti-town, it makes no sense to locate it at the airport, screwing middletown which has had a train station since the 1830's. one can only hope that US transportation policy has evolved a little. we do enough to discourage people from living in towns without transportation policy putting stations outside of town. the only reason I've even been to middletown was because i could take the train there. took the train to ride the tourist railroad there and had an excellent meal at the brownstone cafe.

Only problem is that this AP Green is not exactly right in the heart of town like the current station. It would be more accessible to western part of town. But at that location, you now have freight tracks on both sides of the amtrak line (NS Royalton Branch to the south, Middletown & Hummelstown RR's interchange to the north).

gp80mac wrote: Only problem is that this AP Green is not exactly right in the heart of town like the current station. It would be more accessible to western part of town. But at that location, you now have freight tracks on both sides of the amtrak line (NS Royalton Branch to the south, Middletown & Hummelstown RR's interchange to the north).

It's my understanding that the people who attended the meetings would prefer it stay put. I'm not sure I follow exactly what you're trying to say. I do think the current location is fine for Middletown but I also understand that the parking garage would have to be smaller and there'd be no larger scale development to go with it. With the extension of Emaus st it puts the AP Green Site within two blocks of "downtown" but also on the town's main east-west road (Harrisburg Pike/230. It also means that, in the future, that to this street could become more walkable. Interestingly, I think the AP green site is actually a little closer to union and main than the old site. Middletown is a fascinating little town, IMO. If it were a 60 min ride from Philly I'd consider moving there. Housing stock is nicer than Mt. Joy, it's a more substantial town, has potential for a riverfront park, and is incredibly walkable. I don't mind driving to work but if I have to take the train, I prefer to live within walking distance of the train and like to live places where I'm not forced to get in my car to get a beer or have a meal. Anyway, which site do you mean?

OT-I was surprised to see PTC trolleys in the Middletown & Hummelstown yard. do they own them or are they storing them?

The AP Green site is pretty close to the western edge of town. Middletown is a lot larger than it looks on the map. So it wouldn't be too walkable for anyone in the center of town-east. That's ok, *if* there is plenty of parking. (I wonder how many people do walk to the current amtrak station). The main draw of the current stop (and Etown) is the free parking. And that is why locals are opposed to the HIA staion... you just know the Airport authority would charge an arm, 3 legs, and 2 left nuts to park there. I just want to know how they are going to deal with the M&H track which runs between the proposed site and Amtrak.

Truth be told, Middletown only has a small spot of riverfront. The majority of it belongs to Royalton. And Royalton's main source of revenue is their police chief that parks along Rt. 441 in his 1992 Caprice pulling people over... unless they finally replaced that. And no, I never was caught. But locals know that he hangs out there.

Check out their map: http://www.middletownborough.com/images ... _large.gif

Those PCCs are owned by the M&H I believe. Original plans were to run trolleys on the line, but that never happened. Now they sit there, rotting...

gp80mac wrote:Those PCCs are owned by the M&H I believe. Original plans were to run trolleys on the line, but that never happened. Now they sit there, rotting...

The PCCs are rusting away, although some preservation work is being done on some of them.
The statement that trolleys running on the line never happened is a slight overstatement. The trolley is powered by a Cummins diesel-generator

The original plans (from several sources) was that MIDH wanted to string wire and run trolleys regular. Way back when. I have no ill-feelings toward the M&H, I wish them the best... but all those old SEPTA PCCs, just looks like Sanford & Sons.