Acela II (Alstom Avelia Liberty): Design, Production, Delivery, Acceptance

8th Notch wrote: ↑Wed Nov 03, 2021 9:46 am Still on target for Acela 23 now, the thing still has a boatload of problems being worked out…

I can understand why brand new engineered equipment needs testing to identify and fix all the problems, integrating everything does bring up issues. But why are there so many issues with all the "off the shelf" components being used with Acela 2 trainsets?

The operating environment of the NEC is unique.

Unique, very probable. But it has been in existence over a century. Definitely not an entirely new environment.

Arlington wrote: ↑Tue Nov 02, 2021 12:58 pm Have the trainsets continued to be delivered (completed-except-for-the-pantograph-mods)? OR are there still supply chain problems?

Saw a photo on Facebook today showing a train with 2 P42s and a metroliner heading to Hornell to pick up the 3rd set

electricron wrote: ↑Wed Nov 03, 2021 10:12 am

8th Notch wrote: ↑Wed Nov 03, 2021 9:46 am Still on target for Acela 23 now, the thing still has a boatload of problems being worked out…

I can understand why brand new engineered equipment needs testing to identify and fix all the problems, integrating everything does bring up issues. But why are there so many issues with all the "off the shelf" components being used with Acela 2 trainsets?

Difference in operating environment between France and NEC for sure! In addition to the pan issues, there is a problem when the train set goes into regen braking mode, the frequency disrupts the code in the rail so the cab signal drops to restricting.

CSRR573 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 03, 2021 10:45 am

Arlington wrote: ↑Tue Nov 02, 2021 12:58 pm Have the trainsets continued to be delivered (completed-except-for-the-pantograph-mods)? OR are there still supply chain problems?

Saw a photo on Facebook today showing a train with 2 P42s and a metroliner heading to Hornell to pick up the 3rd set

Actually just saw some photos of them leaving Hornell with a new trainset in tow. Powercars 2108 and 2109. (my guess is the trainsets with the powercars in the gap are being retrofitted with the changes and this is the first to be ready to go with the new changes.)

8th Notch wrote: ↑Wed Nov 03, 2021 11:29 am

That's an interesting problem, I guess it makes sense though, the cab codes are coming through the rail which forms part of the circuit whether the train is in power or regen. What other equipment on the NEC does regen braking, and did they have the same issues?

Trainset #3 (the first non-test) has left the factory!
https://www.eveningtribune.com/story/ne ... 265625001/

MattW wrote: ↑Wed Nov 03, 2021 12:18 pm

Almost all modern locomotives / EMUs use some sort of regen braking. Sounds like a typical EMI issue. New rolling stocks should be designed not to cause disruption to existing electronics.

On French high speed rails, audio frequency, jointless track circuits (UM71/UM2000) providing train detection and cab carrier frequencies up to 2600Hz are used. But even AF track circuits can be victims of EMI. When MARTA put their first chopper-based MUs in service in 1980s, it was found that their traction return currents caused track relays to falsely energize. GRS developed the "dual code AF track circit" as a remedy.

EMI is often forgotten in every electronic problem. Had a problem here for years that finally got fixed when refrigerator was replaced. Read you electronics books and the FCC part about EMI.
Better to get the AX-2 problems solved now not later for the whole fleet as happened with AX-1s

Arlington wrote: ↑Wed Nov 03, 2021 7:58 pm Trainset #3 (the first non-test) has left the factory!
https://www.eveningtribune.com/story/ne ... 265625001/

looking at the photo gallery they posted, in picture 7 it looks like another set is there in the background

We may have to suspect that sub contractor parts have quality problems? Sort of like the quality problems of WASH metro's wheel sets.
Siemens may be short personnel to do enough quality checks. Remember all the equipment parked at the plant needing parts.
Siemens even had to buy additional acres to store various agencies' unfinished equipment.

west point wrote: ↑Thu Nov 04, 2021 5:24 pm We may have to suspect that sub contractor parts have quality problems? Sort of like the quality problems of WASH metro's wheel sets.
Siemens may be short personnel to do enough quality checks. Remember all the equipment parked at the plant needing parts.
Siemens even had to buy additional acres to store various agencies' unfinished equipment.

I did not realize Siemens built anything associated with the Acela 2 trainsets
I thought they were being built by Alstom.

Siemens just an example of many missing parts and maybe bad parts. Suspect quality problems at Alstom as well.

Just found an FRA report on the exact same issue:

https://railroads.dot.gov/sites/fra.dot ... INTERC.PDF

Apparantly Siemens's ICE trainset was successfully tested for EMI on the corridor. The test covered scenarios from max traction to max braking and from zero to line speeds, with a specific focus on cab signal interference. Siemens did reduce the 100 Hz harmonics by an active filter in addition to a vital protection circuit which would fail-safely cut off the MCB once 100 Hz current went above 1 amp. Theoretically Alstom could take similar or better approaches to this problem.