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  • A question to ponder

  • Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New England
Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New England

Moderators: MEC407, NHN503

 #71585  by trainsinmaine
 
Something I've been thinking about over the past couple of days, that I want to throw out to all of you: In hindsight, what rail branches in New England never should have been abandoned? Granted, when they
were discontinued it was for what were considered legitimate reasons (largely financial), but I think there were some that in the long run could have seen a bright future if management had had some vision.
Examples: MAINE: The Sandy River and Rangeley Lakes. Would have made a terrific tourist attraction.
VERMONT: The Rutland's Ogdensburg Subdivision, up through Lake Champlain. Spectacular scenery; again, would have made a great tourist route. Same goes for the Chatham Sub.
MASSACHUSETTS: The segment of the New Haven's Cape Cod branch from South Dennis to Provincetown. Same reason.
The B&M's Central Mass. branch from Waltham to Hudson (now embargoed) and from Hudson to Clinton (abandoned). It's insane that this isn't being run by the MBTA as a commuter line. Route 20 is a parking lot, and the Wachusett Reservoir tunnel and trestle would be a trip (literally and figuratively).
CONNECTICUT: The Highland Division and Air Line from Hartford to Willimantic to Putnam and into Massachusetts. Commuter service for northeastern Conn. and a through AMTRAK route from Hartford to Boston.

These are just thoughts . . . impractical, maybe; off the wall, maybe. I'll accept any criticisms. But worth consideration, nonetheless. And I'm sure there are other lines out there that would qualify. Any suggestions . . . ? Let's open up this can o' worms. :wink:
 #71669  by Paul Cutler III
 
South Dennis to P'town was abandoned partly in 1960, and all the way in 1965. Who was setting up tourist trains then? How can one blame management for that?

The Central Mass? Isn't that close to both the Fitchburg and the Worcester line?

The Highland Division? What's that? And the Air Line was strictly between New Haven and Willimantic, it didn't go near Hartford. Are you, perhaps, thinking of the Midland Division? That went from Willimantic to Boston...

There's one problem with an Amtrak line from Hartford to Boston is that it would compete with the Inland route that already exists (well, it used to) from Hartford to Springfield to Boston. It was so popular that it was recently canned.

The real problems? The Mansfield-to-Taunton connection. Removed during a 1950's Mansfield highway project, the State offered to build the NH a new RoW to reconnect the line in West Mansfield, but the New Haven declined. Either that, or the Stoughton-to-Taunton line.

The Old Colony lines, now restored or being restored.

The Maybrook line, killed by Penn Central.

The Falmouth line, freshly upgraded at State expense, then closed before a train ever ran on it.

 #71909  by NRGeep
 
This is strictly in the "what if" dept. Nevertheless, one wonders if at least the Bellows Falls to Keene section of the B&M Cheshire Branch may have remained open if Steamtown had stayed running on the branch as the Cheshire was it's original home before Nelson Blount lost his legal battle with the state of New Hampshire. Also, can't help mentioning the Green Mountain RR's losing court battle against GRS back in 1984 to buy the still intact, abandoned Cheshire. If the tiny Green Mountain had a corridor to at least Troy Mills they would have had a much quicker route to connections to their yard in North Walpole and with the Conn River Line and the Ashuelot Branch could have been terminated in Hinsdale as the GRS Deerfield connection would have been unnecessary. I'm well aware that most of the paper mills and industry are gone now but don't underestimate Green Mountains potential for creating new shippers at least back in the 80's when there still was significant industry in the area. But, alas Guilfords high priced lawyers prevailed and hey, Mellon made much more just selling the Keene freight yard to the city of Keene than they would have ever made selling the Cheshire to Green Mountain. But, sentiment aside it is interesting that GRS left all the steel bridges intact on the Ashuelot Branch yet they took down all the steel bridges on the Cheshire immediatly after they beat Green Mountain in court. Liability perhaps, though it seems Fink wanted to insure that there was no infrastructure left on the line so as to prevent any future RR ever to run on it again while the Ashuelot was just an afterthought and not worth the trouble it seems to take down the bridges. Just my no doubt biased opinion. :wink:
 #71911  by MrB
 
Your question is a valid one, for I think too many lines in Massachusetts have been shut down which hurts our economy due to businesses looking elsewhere that use rail as a means of transportation. I would love to see the old Central Mass. line refurbished and used by the MBTA, it was looked into by the MBTA, but the feasability study that I saw on-line basically squashed any hopes that it could happen. But a question that I would ask is on any line that the MBTA has brought back into service has frieght serviced also returned to it further down the line? Rte. 20 is beyond joking about, anytime it takes upwards of an hour to get from Marlborough to the Weston line for Rte. 128 which is only about 16 miles then any commute is too long.

 #72051  by NRGeep
 
re Central Mass Line: If the MBTA were to ever reopen the line it would seem to make sense to build a new branch off of the Fitchburg in Waltham near where the old Central Mass bridge crosses over the Fitchburg as the other abandoned sections in Waltham Highlands etc have many grade crossings and have easy bus connections at least durring rush hours to Waltham Center on the Fitchburg. It would have to be a gradual grade starting soon after Brandeis in order to climb up to the level of the Central Mass. But given the Weston Nimby's hostility towards the bike path proposal it seems despite the choking traffic on rt 20 that such an idea would have next to no chance in the near future. Also, the funds for such "new" rail projects are not what they were in the 90's.
 #72215  by jeffger
 
Connecticut: The Canal Line from Westfield, MA to Plainville, CT. This could have been an alternate to the expensive freight rites on Amtraks New Haven to Springfield Line. It would have enabled Pioneer Valley to bid on the Waterbury trackage and perhaps have beaten GRS. It would have also given GRS the opportunity to negoitiate trackage rights with Pioneer Valley from thei River Line at Holyoke to Westfield and then south to their current operations center at Plainville. Maybe the more competitive rates would have spurred some business in CT instead of driving it all elsewhere. When I was back to CT for a visit last summer, I could not believe where they cut the line just north of Plainville. Is it stupid or was there a future plan?

 #72218  by ceo
 
The Central Mass. was a failure as a railroad precisely because it was smack in between the Fitchburg and Boston & Albany lines. There aren't very many places along its route that aren't a perfectly reasonable drive from a Fitchburg or Worcester Line station, and I think it would be a better use of transportation dollars to improve parking, travel times and headways on those lines so as to attract more ridership.

Plus, the Weston NIMBYs make the Hingham NIMBYs look like a bunch of rank amateurs. They managed to block the bike path from going through on that route, and bikes are a lot less noisy and smelly than trains.
Last edited by ceo on Mon Nov 29, 2004 6:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

 #72308  by EdSchweppe
 
Even though the common-carrier Sandy River & Rangley Lakes was abandoned back in the 1930s, the SR&RL still exists - sort of - as a tourist / historical road. See http://www.srrl-rr.org/ for more details.

As for the Central Mass - frankly, given how much work would be needed to rebuild it and how little benefit would ensue, the insanity would be if the T tried to bring it back to service. Every town east of Hudson either already has commuter rail service or is next to a town with commuter rail service. Yes, commuting on US-20 stinks, but it's a two-lane road, not a major highway. Anybody in Marlborough who's in a hurry to get to Boston will drive south to the Pike.

Heck, the Central Mass almost certainly wouldn't even have been built in the first place if the B&M hadn't wanted a route West to compete with the Fitchburg, way back when...

 #72360  by ThinkNarrow
 
Heck, the Central Mass almost certainly wouldn't even have been built in the first place if the B&M hadn't wanted a route West to compete with the Fitchburg, way back when
It has always interested me how the modern banking business has paralleled the history of New England railroads. Branches in both industries were built to syphon traffic from the existing railroads/banks. Eventually, the stronger railroad/bank acquired the weaker railroad/bank and its associated branches. The "acquirer" operated the branches for a while, but as overall business declined, the acquired branches were jetisoned.

Just like the proliferation of small bank branches a few years ago, I think we have to face the fact that many now-abandoned lines never should have been built in the first place. The Central Mass is an oft-cited example of this.

 #72392  by shadyjay
 
Its always interesting to apply the "what if" factor. For instance, what if Amtrak had chosen the Air Line route for its high speed New York-Boston trains, as was proposed in an EIS document in the 1980s. Back then, the three routes profiled were the Inland Route, the Air Line route, and the Shore Line route. We all know which one won out, but if the Air Line route had been selected - that would have been quite a feat to accomplish. I wonder what the running time would be, as that route (New Haven-Willimantic-Putnam-Boston) is the shortest of the 3 routes to Boston. Of course, all of the track would have had to been rebuilt and the NIMBY's would have raised holy "heck".

As for other lines I'd like to see brought back:
CT: Highland Line East (Manchester-Willimantic) - would be good for commuter service, along with Highland West (Waterbury-Newington, much of which still exists, barely, by (cough) Guilford.

CT: Conn Valley Line: (Haddam-Middletown) - no explanation necessary here, as this is my hometown line and I have dreamed of the day when a steam train can run from Essex to Middletown (not every day, but for specials). That'll happen some day.... when I take over THAT railroad.

NH/ME: Eastern Route (Newburyport MA to Portsmouth NH) - would be good for commuter service (MBTA) to/from Boston. Extend it up to Wells (perhaps via a line parallel to the Maine Turnpike or a long abandoned line) and move the Downeaster over to this line. There would be fewer New Hampshire stations (Portsmouth only, maybe Hampton - for the beaches).

NH/VT: Northern Line (Concord-White River Jct) - that's where you'd run your Boston-Montreal trains, a study is taking place to see if this would be [economically] feasible.

NH: Conway Branch (Ossipee-Conway) - another spot to run excursions for the Conway Scenic (out of North Conway), and you could also run Boston to White Mtns trains for skiing, shopping, etc.


As for abandonments in recent years, I can't really argue over the abandonments of the Canal Line (CT), Central New England (CT), Lamoille Valley (VT), as there wasn't much hope for these lines. For the CT lines, these lines, if they existed today, wouldn't probably generate much freight business, and commuters aren't going from Avon to New Haven - they're going to Hartford. Solution there: Let's build a commuter rail line from Avon/Farmington to Hartford. Yeah right, the NIMBY's would again raise a ruckus. Wishful thinking. Just my $.02

-Jay Hogan

 #72459  by ewh
 
I remember reading in some publication a quarter century ago (I'm dating myself) that Jay Wulfson, then the head of the Vermont Railway, said that with hindsight he was sorry that the connection to the D&H and CP was not kept up through the Lake Champlain islands and across the lake from Alburg. (He didn't mention the line to the NYC/CONRAIL connection east of Ogdensburg.) I suppose he was indicating the potential for traffic on the northern end of the VTR from other than the CN/CV. Like many others, I wish that line was still in use. But, as my mother used to say: "If wishes were horses, then beggars would ride." Paul Cutler is right: without traffic any rail line is dead and wishful thinking won't make them profitable.

 #72812  by NellsChoo
 
Bring back the Central MA division!! That way I can see more action locally!!! It seems that once cars became common, rail lines became obsolete. Now that the roads are too congested, rail lines make more sence.

I wonder if things will improve for commuter trains in our lifetime? RDCs roaming the communities again!!!

:-D

Jonelle
Missed the Cool Choo

 #72904  by wolfmom69
 
:( I don't live in Mass.,thank God,but Maine is getting nearly as bad. From what I've heard,NO WAY that the "NIMBY's" in Wayland,Waltham,and especially Weston,would ever allow the old Central Mass to be reactivated! They don't need commuter rail,they probably all drive their gas guzzlers,or "work at home". Many of the palatial estates have been built right next to the old ROW,so no way! As far as the state govt. ever forcing the NIMBYS to allow it,forget it! The govt. showed its lack of testicular fortitude in dealing with Hingham and the rest of the Greenbush line! Bud :(

 #72915  by Ron Newman
 
Waltham already has two commuter rail stops, and Weston has three, though only one of them has full-time service.
 #73792  by MrB
 
While it would seem highly unlikely to bring back the old CM due to opposition from abutters to the ROW, there is an alternate way of bringing back commuter rail along at least part of the CM. In Framingham there is the old Framingham-Lowell line that leads up to Sudbury. Where the old F&L line diamonds with the old CM there is also a switch leading from the F&L over to the CM. If the line from Framingham to Sudbury and then from Sudbury to Hudson or Clinton could be refurbished then you could eliminate the need to come from Weston & Waltham. Stops could be made in North Framingham ( helping to relieve some of the congestion in downtown Framingham ), a stop in Sudbury ( helping to take more cars off the road on Rte. 20 ), a stop in Hudson ( relieving some traffic on the backroads thru Sudbury and Wayland and Rte. 20 ), and stops in perhaps Berlin and Clinton. Using the line this way would eliminate one crossing over Rte. 20, and another at Rte. 27, thus allowing these routes to have minimal impact from the trains. But as this is being written the whole thing has already gone up in smoke for they have already torn up the tracks from the old F&L line in Sudbury at least in the last couple of weeks. It would have been quite the sight to have seen the commuter trains coming back into the old Clinton station.