Why is Rail Frieght dying in NE?

Of course this isn't New England, but I was quite impressed when I read the item below. BNSF at least is really raking in the $$. If only they or someone with a sound business plan would buy out Guilford, and reestablish confidence with the public and business sector. I think there would be enough intermodal traffic to New England to make it worthwhile to justify significant investment in intrastructure.

http://www.billingsgazette.com/index.ph ... profit.inc

Boy, there are a thousand different points to tackle on this subject. While certainly not an expert by any means, here are a few things that I think bear looking at.
First, and although its not New England, per se, Eastman Kodak woes in Rochester, NY come to mind. A huge rail user of coal, chemicals, paper, and other rail-friendly materials, Kodak is finding it's rail needs diminishing along with its film sales. Many of the same railfans who bemoan the loss of freight business have switched their photo habits to digital photography in a quest for "instant gratification" with their photos. Digital photography needs very little of the paper and chemicals found in film photography. No film to buy, less paper to print pics on, no photo albums to hold photos, no slide carousels, projectors, or the packaging needed to ship these items. That is alot of business when multiplied out across the nation and world. (Interestingly though, I would wager that most digital images never make it off the hard drive or a memory chip anyway. And when they do, most end up being printed anyway, in the end. The same place they end up from roll film!) Yes I know there are definite advantages to digital ! . But in the context of freight movements, sadly, digital does not contribute much.
Also, as we are out using digital cameras to capture RR images, we are getting to favorite locations in our foreign built cars. Again, even though more are made in this country all the time, many raw materials that moved by rail to domestic auto producers and parts suppliers, are brought into this country in containers from other countries.
This leads to the furthur point that our own industrial giants are finding off-shore out-sourcing to be a quick fix to rising manufacturing costs in this country. All contribute to a decrease in both railroad and truck shipping as we know it, although some find their way in containers at least.
I realize that the railfan market in any business segment is extremely small. But, when extrapolated out to the general consumer market, the numbers become huge.
That being the case however, there are things that are happening that buck the trend a bit.
On the MassCentral for example, plastic resin transloading has been on the increase as plastic continues to be extremely competitive vs. trucks. This is a happy fact that keeps many New England shortlines busy with terminal switching and high value resin carloads. Gibbs Crossing and Ware Yard transloads on the MCER are obvious signs of the health of the plastics industries.
MCER has also beem moving steel coil cars off the CSX to a terminal in South Barrie MA. Here the coils are unloaded and shipped to a mill in New England for processing. This business was not on the RR a couple years ago.
So, I guess that markets change, the consumer choices change, the NIMBY factor, and process changes in industry all affect loose and unit freight trains.
The challange is to find the unobvious markets in New England, and elsewhere. Unfortunatly, most of the large railroads are trending away from loose car railroading and the supplying of rail freight cars to small railroads. And, most of the sales forces at major railroads have been slashed to the point of basically catering to the large industries only.
Sorry this was so long. There is just so many things that play into the whole topic, and I find it all interesting ! Maybe others have more points to make on this issue !
Regards

Its funny now scale can be such a matter of perspective.

I want to refocus my question a little, and answer it myself with what I've learned from hanging around on these forums lately.

My question wasn't meant to be "why has industry declined over the past few decades". What I really meant by Rail Freight dying was something more along the lines of "why are more and more businesses switching from rail to truck" in new england. It is supposed to be much cheaper to buy bulk goods by train than truck. Yet all up and down the rail lines, spurs are abandoned as companies no longer take trail freight, in favor of truck freight. I know industry is on the decline, and so rail freight will decline also. But rail freight seems to be declining much faster than industry in general. As I said, countless companies that are doing well, and are right off of main lines, yet turn away from rail and go strictly truck.

And based on all I've read here, it seems that the answer is the letter G.
Guildford doesn't want rail customers. They seem to operate in a self defense, damage control type of way, instead of trying to be innovative and finding ways to expand their business. They could have so much more business if they just gave it a little effort and tried to keep the customers they have, and make an effort to gain new customers, rather than just chopping off more and more body parts at every opportunity. There are businesses all over woburn and wilmington and winchester that are still around, but have stopped taking rail freight. If its cheaper, why would they do this? Because of G?

That was what I meant when I asked the original question. But I enjoyed all the answers anyway!

Several points here, you can "knock" Guilford all you want, the simple
point is that the big users of rail freight are for the most part, gone from
New England and very unlikely ever to return. Don't blame Guilford for
the loss of freight in their part of Connecticut, it was gone before the
Boston & Maine took over from Conrail in the Naugatuck Valley. Had the
Boston & Maine not taken this territory over, no telling what would be
operating there today. I suppose it is possible that Guilford could market
their services a little more effectively and maybe they would grow the
business but Guilford is a privately held company and apparently Timothy
Mellon is satisfied with the financial performance of the company.
As for foreign made or named automobiles, I drive a Toyota, my first time
with a car not manufactured by the "big three". I was not satisfied with my last Saturn and it got totaled in a collision two years ago. I also did
not like the Saturn dealers in Broward County, they are all under the
same ownership and I had trouble with them both in the purchase end
and in the service end. I will NEVER AGAIN ever go back to them for
anything.
Comparing the Toyota and the Saturn is not at all difficult:
Saturn made in Spring Hill, TN, at least at present but GM is going to cut
back there and maybe close the facility alltogether. The transmission is
imported from Hungary.
Toyota made in Fremont, CA, shipped by rail (it was a very hot move in
my Conrail days), the transmission is imported from Japan. The last I
knew, the Fremont facility of Toyota employes are represented by the
national unions that represent automobile workers.
So, who lost by my buying a Toyota instead of Saturn? I think the big
loss was to the stockholders of General Motors but again, I buy what I
think is the best car for me and not to enrich the stockholders of General
Motors.
I am not a salesperson for Toyota but believe me, I have driven very
recent models of both cars and there is no comparison between the
Saturn and the Toyota and I want the best car for my money.
As far as Kodak is concerned, they are making digital cameras too, like
a good many others. It is simply another sign of the changing times.
Electric typewriters and computers have just about completely replaced
the old typewriters that were formerly made in Hartford and Bridgeport
and other places in the northeast. Does anybody here really want to go
back to the old style typewriters? I really doubt it.
The railroads have adapted as best they can to the changing traffic
patterns. They carry a good amount of trash, garbage and sludge. They
carry a reasonable number of containers but it is not generally considered
economical to carry them for a short distance like New York to Boston as
the terminal costs are just as high for a short haul like this one as they
are for a cross country haul.
Noel Weaver

While New England manufacturing has steadily eroded since the end of WW11 there is still plenty of freight entering and leaving the region by truck. The larger question is why intermodal rail service is growing so rapidly all over the country with the exception of New England? The major rail systems are setting traffic records for all categories of freight. On a nationwide basis intermodal traffic is up over 10% during the past year alone. The problem with New England is that with the exception of CSX, track conditions are not conducive to time sensitive service. 25 mph just doesn’t cut it. Moreover, access to the region from the south is so slow and round about via the Albany area gateways that most of the intermodal traffic that should be shipped in by rail is off-loaded in New Jersey and shipped the rest of the way by truck. The state of Connecticut, which has one of the largest consumer markets in the country, has not one rail intermodal terminal. I often wonder how much campaign money falls into the pockets of our politicians from the highway lobby vs. rail interests.

Looking at that big picture, New England itself is a region that could almost fit into the area of some of the largest states as we look west. NE has several major road arterys in a compact region unlike the wide open spaces. As we go west, there's a bigger gap between major population centers. That would appear to make rail shipment more efficient than trucking across the gaps. You can drive across most of New England in the time it takes to cross a state like Ohio.

Driving a truck into New England is not easy except on I-90. I-95 is a nightmare for most of the daylight hours (not to mention a chokepoint south), and I-84 is not without its issues.

We certainly are paying for what we lack- no easy rail route in and no real intermodal operation.

Granted that the former rail-related manufacturing businesses no longer exist in New England, and that remaining business consists of forest products out and coal in, there remains the question of why Guilford is not pursuing intermodal business, as is being done by all the major Class 1s. The answer becomes clear if you think of Guilford as a real estate company that also runs a minimal railroad business, and do not think of it as a railroad. Then, it becomes clear that Guilford has no interest in the railroad business beyond the minimal level of service it is legally obligated to provide, but is only interested in buying/selling/leasing the vast real estate holdings throughout New England formerly owned by the Boston and Maine and Maine Central.

Sure, this is my opinion, but I've looked at Guilford's business practices and bounced it off enough people in the business that is has been confirmed several times. Besides, I didn't just roll off the turnip truck last week myself.

PBM

Guilford's biggest problem is that they are penny wise and pound foolish - they would trip over a hundred dollar bill to pick up a nickel. They are so concerned with their budget, that they oftentimes make very poor business decisions just to cut costs. Sure you can save money buying junk locomotives, but when a 100 car train sits for 5 days because of no power, you not only lose the trust (and business) of your customers, but you also end up paying through the nose for car hire/per diem. They have wretchid power, a pathetic track structure, a constant lack of crews and a bunch of yes men in upper management that are scared of their own shadows. I know some people on this site have stuck up for Guilford in the past, but you can't argue facts, and believe me when I tell you that shippers all over the country rate their service as the worst anywhere and some refuse to even do business with them any more.

roberttosh wrote:Guilford's biggest problem is that they are penny wise and pound foolish - they would trip over a hundred dollar bill to pick up a nickel. They are so concerned with their budget, that they oftentimes make very poor business decisions just to cut costs. Sure you can save money buying junk locomotives, but when a 100 car train sits for 5 days because of no power, you not only lose the trust (and business) of your customers, but you also end up paying through the nose for car hire/per diem. They have wretchid power, a pathetic track structure, a constant lack of crews and a bunch of yes men in upper management that are scared of their own shadows. I know some people on this site have stuck up for Guilford in the past, but you can't argue facts, and believe me when I tell you that shippers all over the country rate their service as the worst anywhere and some refuse to even do business with them any more.

I don't think the basic engine that Guilford owns, GP-40 etc is an example
of "wretched" power. In fact, the GP-40 was in my opinion one of EMD's
better locomotives. They are not new but with decent maintenance, they
should be able to continue for a while yet.
There is an industry wide shortage of locomotive engineers, I doubt if
Guilford's are any worse than many of the other freight railroads.
I wonder of Guilford's service is the worst anywhere, a lot of their territory
is marginal at best and it is not economical to provide daily service for a
customer who ships or receives five cars a week or so.
As for TOFC service, it seems to me that Guilford ran a fast van train
between the Bangor area and Cedar Hill, a dedicated train called the "East
Wind", they innovated with that train but there just wasn't the traffic to
justify the operation.
I am not saying that Guilford's service is great but the worst?, I am not so
sure about that one either.
Noel Weaver

Noel, with all due respect, most of their power is 40 years old or more (excluding the ex CN Widecabs which are 30 years old) and that just isn't the norm for class 2 railroads. The GP-35's were bought from the NS just before they were sold to a junk yard for scrap. The GP-40's are good if they're maitained, but they use mostly used parts and their failure rates are off the charts. As for their poor service, it's alot more than just with the smaller customers. You must have seen the reports on the Paper mills in Maine begging the state to do something about Guilford's lousy service? Or heard about Northeast Utilities setting up a Coal transload at W Springfield to access their Mt Tom plant by truck and thus avoid Guilford altogether? I deal with alot of Guilford customers and most tell me the service has never been worse. Cars sitting in Deerfield for a week or more is not uncommon.

Ooops

Who says

Mick, I'm not suggesting that Guilford made poor decisions in getting out of certain areas such as Boston, Worcester or abandoning lines such as the Mountain Division and Calais branch, what I am saying is that they continue to provide terrible service to even their most lucrative customers. Sure CSXT and the UP have their probelms, but it's pretty bad when CSXT can get freight from Chicago to Boston in half the time that Guilford can move a Boxcar from Bucksport, ME to Mechanicville, NY. Most railroads, whether it be the MMA, NECR, PW or even CSXT, deliver cars to their customers within a day or so of the cars arriving at the local servicing yard. This is not the case however with Guilford. I work with many of their larger customers, and it is not uncommon for cars to sit in places like Rigby, Fitchburgh, Lawrence, etc for over a week before placement. It's the same story every time - the local crew had to go rescue a through train that had engine trouble, or that outlawed because of a 10 MPH mainline, the crew ran out of time, the power died, no crew, no power, the local derailed in the yard, "we served you last week", I could go on and on and on..........

One fo the many problems is the unreliability of the carriers, Guilford (thank you Tim) CSX and NS. A few years ago The Martin Brower Co's cold storage warehouse in Ayer recieved the meat for McDonalds ratburgers for most of the northeast. Then one Fourth of July weekend Tim's terrors left a string of reefers without enough fuel. What a mess!! Now your Big Macs come by Macks.