New Lansdale station at Ninth Avenue

[walnut]

The branch is zone 4, or $191 per monthly pass.

Every 10 daily boardings is therefore probably worth $20,000 to SEPTA per year in revenue.

The incremental cost of stopping a train can be calculated, but is likely to be small. There is an energy and brake shoes cost, but it barely registers. There are potential crew costs, but I doubt any hours would change. And there are station maintenance costs.

Each stop adds roughly a minute to the schedule (longer on faster track). Minutes cost ridership from further out, but there are natural break points. Two or three minutes may not matter. Ten or fifteen might. Station ridership can increase or decrease based on other circumstances.

Bottom line: closing stations is not straightforward. It is very easy to lose more than you gain.

[CComMack]

Fortuna TOD in the works:

http://www.thereporteronline.com/busine ... ce-support" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This. This, is how you fix low ridership at a station. Fortuna is anemic but fine now, but as SCB points out, it would probably drop into endangered territory after the reactivation of Pennridge. Building housing right at the station will ensure a steady local base of ridership, no matter what happens on the Bethlehem Branch. Well done, Hatfield Township.

[Push&Pull Master]

Fortuna TOD in the works:

http://www.thereporteronline.com/busine ... ce-support" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This for sure will increase ridership at Fortuna. This will add about 60 homes next to the station as well as 30 spaces for homes/SEPTA parking. Maybe a Ninth Street station and Fortuna can coexist after all. My overall vision for the Doylestown Branch would be similar to SCB's. I would definitely build the Ninth Street station and possibly extend the second track to the station area. With the TOD plan, I would keep Fortuna open as well. At Colmar, I would keep everything the same but I would close nearby Link Belt. At Chalfont, I would purchase the adjacent property along Summit Ave and build more parking on that property. Even though New Britain has low ridership, I would keep it open and expand parking using the parcel of land next to it. Finally, I would replace Del-Val-College with a park and ride off the 611 Bypass with direct ramps from the highway and Lower State Road. Also, I would try to find a way to increase the top speed between SCHOOL and LONG to 50 mph.

[25Hz]

Pathetic that they can't old one speck of non-housing built land.

How does this relate to fortuna? Not even on the right rail line?

[zebrasepta]

I'll have to agree with 25hz as i live in Hatfield that location isn't next to Fortuna at all

[Suburban Station]

Do you have any idea what making a 15 minute walk a 30 minute walk does to ridership? It goes to 0. Like I said, Fortuna should be closed when "Pennridge" is up and running IF additional parking cannot be arranged. I stand by all my other points.

nobody is walking anyway. this is the problem with political organizations. we spend millions to keep three people a day happy since they walk. meanwhile you have a very heavy train that must come to a stop to pick up a couple of people.you want to walk to a station? live in a real town

[Suburban Station]

The branch is zone 4, or $191 per monthly pass.

Every 10 daily boardings is therefore probably worth $20,000 to SEPTA per year in revenue.

The incremental cost of stopping a train can be calculated, but is likely to be small. There is an energy and brake shoes cost, but it barely registers. There are potential crew costs, but I doubt any hours would change. And there are station maintenance costs.

Each stop adds roughly a minute to the schedule (longer on faster track). Minutes cost ridership from further out, but there are natural break points. Two or three minutes may not matter. Ten or fifteen might. Station ridership can increase or decrease based on other circumstances.

Bottom line: closing stations is not straightforward. It is very easy to lose more than you gain.

so...one silverliner car weighs 121k pounds. how many kilowatt houra are required to get three silverliners up to track speed?

[CComMack]

I'll have to agree with 25hz as i live in Hatfield that location isn't next to Fortuna at all

The location in the lede graf of the linked story seems to be in error. All other references, in that story and others, put the proposed project at Cowpath and Lenhart, adjacent to Fortuna. No other reference is ever made to Cowpath and Orvilla.

[SCB2525]

Do you have any idea what making a 15 minute walk a 30 minute walk does to ridership? It goes to 0. Like I said, Fortuna should be closed when "Pennridge" is up and running IF additional parking cannot be arranged. I stand by all my other points.

nobody is walking anyway. this is the problem with political organizations. we spend millions to keep three people a day happy since they walk. meanwhile you have a very heavy train that must come to a stop to pick up a couple of people.you want to walk to a station? live in a real town

No, they are. Like I said, walk-ups are the majority at Fortuna. I can attest to this personally. Some people also park at the larger-than-normal Rite Aid lot across the street. Also, considering the lot has 30 spots and a total board figure of 104 according to the last ridership report (2011), these cannot all be drivers. I understand your sentiment that you can't tailor every station to potential walk-ups as in many cases in the suburbs they are non-existent. This is not the case at Fortuna.

Also shown in this report is that compared to 2009, ridership has increased 38%, even as the wood shelter has become increasingly shabby and damaged (parts look like Jack Nicholson took an axe to it) and the last time I was there, smells of urine. All in all, its simply not wise to close Fortuna in the same fell swoop as opening 9Th street as the walk-up ridership is NOT insignificant. Leave it open at least until you can gauge changes in ridership patterns. If boards at Fortuna plummet, fine, close the damn thing.

Removing the 9Th street situation from the mix and speaking generally I simply do not understand people's willingness to condone closing a station that has so many damning characteristics that stifle users; ones that can be changed that is. It is a textbook chicken and the egg situation. While I don't think building a grand station at Fortuna, Eddington, etc. is fiscally responsible, it makes sense to spend a limited, smartly applied amount of money to mitigate the characteristics which with sound judgement one can purport cause a limit in ridership. It's simply in the interest of the riding public who may in fact use the station were it actually usable. It also tries to make use of an asset; the fact that the station is already there at all. There are many stations in the system that hold their own in ridership but would not be worth building from scratch; probably a fair chunk of the system is like this. When you completely walk away from a station without a valiant effort in improving it, you have lost that asset, likely forever.

In the case of Eddington; while I use the West Trenton line the vast majority of the time, I could use the Trenton line as a back-up and have but no longer do for a few reasons. First, Croydon and above and Torresdale and below are way too far. Second, Eddington would be relatively easy for me to get to BUT HAS NO DAMNED PARKING. Third, Cornwells Heights requires that I traverse the mess that is Bustleton to Woodhaven Rd. via Evans and the fact that I DO NOT want to have to depend on a shuttle bus to get me to the platform as I'm in a rush to catch the train. It has screwed me in the past and adds an unnecessary chunk of my time wasted where I'm waiting on others to hustle (mostly not) on or off a bus. It's simply not convenient. I can absolutely imagine a piece of the population where all this holds true for them but the West Trenton line is not convenient to get to either, and thus they don't ride the train at all.

Don't get me wrong; I understand the need to speed service and cut fat and there are stations which have no redeeming factors or relatively easy ways of fixing either and are worthy of closure. Andalusia, Fulmor, Lamokin, Nicetown, Tioga, Parkland and others come to mind. Angora is likely the same; one might argue that parking would help but nearby Fernwood-Yeadon also has none. FY isn't a huge ridership generator itself but still does 5x as much business as Angora's near single digits. To that end, there is no conceivable way to turn that ship around enough to be worth it plus the area is covered by direct to CC trolley and crosstown to subway service very well. Close 'er down.

[25Hz]

Do you have any idea what making a 15 minute walk a 30 minute walk does to ridership? It goes to 0. Like I said, Fortuna should be closed when "Pennridge" is up and running IF additional parking cannot be arranged. I stand by all my other points.

nobody is walking anyway. this is the problem with political organizations. we spend millions to keep three people a day happy since they walk. meanwhile you have a very heavy train that must come to a stop to pick up a couple of people.you want to walk to a station? live in a real town

No, they are. Like I said, walk-ups are the majority at Fortuna. I can attest to this personally. Some people also park at the larger-than-normal Rite Aid lot across the street. Also, considering the lot has 30 spots and a total board figure of 104 according to the last ridership report (2011), these cannot all be drivers. I understand your sentiment that you can't tailor every station to potential walk-ups as in many cases in the suburbs they are non-existent. This is not the case at Fortuna.

Also shown in this report is that compared to 2009, ridership has increased 38%, even as the wood shelter has become increasingly shabby and damaged (parts look like Jack Nicholson took an axe to it) and the last time I was there, smells of urine. All in all, its simply not wise to close Fortuna in the same fell swoop as opening 9Th street as the walk-up ridership is NOT insignificant. Leave it open at least until you can gauge changes in ridership patterns. If boards at Fortuna plummet, fine, close the damn thing.

Removing the 9Th street situation from the mix and speaking generally I simply do not understand people's willingness to condone closing a station that has so many damning characteristics that stifle users; ones that can be changed that is. It is a textbook chicken and the egg situation. While I don't think building a grand station at Fortuna, Eddington, etc. is fiscally responsible, it makes sense to spend a limited, smartly applied amount of money to mitigate the characteristics which with sound judgement one can purport cause a limit in ridership. It's simply in the interest of the riding public who may in fact use the station were it actually usable. It also tries to make use of an asset; the fact that the station is already there at all. There are many stations in the system that hold their own in ridership but would not be worth building from scratch; probably a fair chunk of the system is like this. When you completely walk away from a station without a valiant effort in improving it, you have lost that asset, likely forever.

In the case of Eddington; while I use the West Trenton line the vast majority of the time, I could use the Trenton line as a back-up and have but no longer do for a few reasons. First, Croydon and above and Torresdale and below are way too far. Second, Eddington would be relatively easy for me to get to BUT HAS NO DAMNED PARKING. Third, Cornwells Heights requires that I traverse the mess that is Bustleton to Woodhaven Rd. via Evans and the fact that I DO NOT want to have to depend on a shuttle bus to get me to the platform as I'm in a rush to catch the train. It has screwed me in the past and adds an unnecessary chunk of my time wasted where I'm waiting on others to hustle (mostly not) on or off a bus. It's simply not convenient. I can absolutely imagine a piece of the population where all this holds true for them but the West Trenton line is not convenient to get to either, and thus they don't ride the train at all.

Don't get me wrong; I understand the need to speed service and cut fat and there are stations which have no redeeming factors or relatively easy ways of fixing either and are worthy of closure. Andalusia, Fulmor, Lamokin, Nicetown, Tioga, Parkland and others come to mind. Angora is likely the same; one might argue that parking would help but nearby Fernwood-Yeadon also has none. FY isn't a huge ridership generator itself but still does 5x as much business as Angora's near single digits. To that end, there is no conceivable way to turn that ship around enough to be worth it plus the area is covered by direct to CC trolley and crosstown to subway service very well. Close 'er down.

Yes, yes, a thousand times yes.

You do not need to make massive money dumps in these smaller stations, just fix them up enough so people want to & can use them to the fullest extent possible. You will get numbers up & you will make the whole system more inviting.

[Clearfield]

You do not need to make massive money dumps in these smaller stations, just fix them up enough so people want to & can use them to the fullest extent possible. You will get numbers up & you will make the whole system more inviting.

Most renovations require ADA compliance. That's why.

[25Hz]

You do not need to make massive money dumps in these smaller stations, just fix them up enough so people want to & can use them to the fullest extent possible. You will get numbers up & you will make the whole system more inviting.

Most renovations require ADA compliance. That's why.

Being somewhat versed in ADA compliance & standards, i'm super ultra aware of this. If they replaced the murder shacks with something more pleasant looking and more peasant to be in and put in the red LED info zippers and fixed the platforms to make them safe, flat, and not looking like its from a warzone, i think you ,ight see a bump in rider numbers.

By nice i do not mean square steel beams and glass block. Concrete textured to look like wood would suffice.

[Clearfield]

Most renovations require ADA compliance.

Second verse, same as the first.................

[SCB2525]

Then in that case, does adding ONLY a parking lot and maybe painting the shack count as a "renovation"?

[25Hz]

Putting a new shelter in will not do anything as far as ADA. Id love to see someone in a wheelchair get up the stairs there, so i dunno how ADA comes into play with this aspect.

But, i still think new station in landsdale = no.