Railroad Forums 

  • Catskill Mountain Railroad (CMRR) Discussion - 2013

  • Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New York State.
Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New York State.

Moderator: Otto Vondrak

 #1178478  by lvrr325
 
Railroad should just call the police and have it towed to impound. Key is to see if you can get the State Police to respond on the complaint, not the Kingston police. If they won't act, I'm sure the truck doesn't lock, take it out of gear and roll it into the street. Someone will tow it then.


The pesticide thing is just so absurd it was hardly worth responding to, but since it's an outright lie being used as a scare tactic for the general public, a proper response might be:
First of all, if a pesticide being used on the nearby fields was so toxic it would lead to health issues in the city, it would very likely be illegal to use in the first place.

Second of all, legal or illegal pesticides cost money, and most farming operations can't afford to waste money by purposely spraying down things that aren't on their property in addition to their own crops.

Third of all, even if we were to assume that the farming operation was indeed both breaking the law and wasting it's money, this is April. The last time they'd have needed to spray is over six months ago. We have this thing in New York State called precipitation - you may know it as rain or snow. Just how much residue could be left after six months of rain, then snow, then more rain?

I would humbly suggest that any such pesticide has long since been washed into the ground, and into any nearby wells, streams, or other bodies of water, where it likely has already done harm to people, and it might be better served to investigate that source of pollution.
I'm sure more rust flakes fall off of vehicles like that city truck each day than would fall off those railroad cars. How many of those contain paint with lead still in it?


The main thing that would concern me is the talk of zoning violations. I would get me a copy of the ordinances ASAP and I would make sure everything was to the letter of the book. Where they will nail you is where the regulation is unclear and it's left up to the opinion of the enforcement officer. That could be the biggest trouble here.
 #1178562  by cnyrailfan
 
What next? Mr. Gallo blocking CSX's crossings in the city because he's unhappy they are blowing their horns and also blocking the streets? Someone needs to educate Mr. Gallo that even if he has a court order, regulating the CMRR is a federal issue, not a city issue. I also found the Freeman photos of the City Attorney taping the court order to the train cars rather interesting. Obviously one or more people were trespassing to do that... IMHO, this is political grandstanding. Hein and Gallo obviously don't want CMRR around, and are willing to play dirty pool to stand in their way. Sad that they've chosen childish behavior to deal with the issue instead of being adults and approaching the CMRR to discuss the issue.
 #1178576  by airman00
 
Well what I say to the good hard-working CMRR folks is... Don't stop and never give up!! :)

On that note however... I do believe that common sense will prevail and a judge will rule in the railroads favor. First off all these issues being brought up, (the cars... pesticide useage... the "dirty" yard... zoning violations) if you read between the lines those in authority believe they have been issues all along. So WHY bring them up now? If they've been issues all along then they should've been raised years ago.

Second... Nobody in authority is paying any attention at all to the CMRR. They were all caught off guard when they found out that the CMRR had reached 209 and moved the cars. At this rate the cmrr will be offering daily trips to the ashokan long before the county ever even pulls up one spike. So the politico's all freaked out and said we better do something fast or this trail will be history. So they came up with these so-called "allegations" to throw a monkey wrench into things to slow down the rebuilding process because the county will have a hard time justifying not re-upping the lease on a railroad that's rebuilt all the way to the ashokan and beyond.

It's CLEAR that this is nothing more than a witch-hunt against the railroad. After all WHY hasen't the FEMA $$ been used yet? Someone posted here that if the FEMA $$ doesn't get used in time it goes back to the government. That's clearly a stall tactic. You see the politico's all thought there case against the CMRR was a slam dunk. And they even got the Gov. and Sen. Shumer on board with there plans. Here was a old rail line finally done in by time and the weather. It was only a matter of time before there ribbon cutting on the new rail-trail.

But then the CMRR, like a beaten down fighter in a boxing match, rose from the canvas and like a phoenix rising from the ashes, got back on there feet and rebuilt the line all the way to 209 and moved the cars! Hence those in authority freaked out, and now we stand where we are. Nobody in power ever expected the CMRR to recover from Irene and yet here they back on there feet like Stallone in "Rocky". And so now those in power are grasping at straws trying to stop the railroad and the best they can do is put a dump truck on the rails?

That's why I believe common sense will prevail and the CMRR will win! :) By the way my family and I will be coming up for a ride on the kingston train this summer, because we believe in the CMRR!!
 #1178728  by jaystreetcrr
 
I think this mayor's brother got a Lionel trainset for Christmas when he was seven and he's been bent out of shape ever since. What a spite filled hissy fit.
This is going to be a big PR battle and the CMRR is on the side of the angels. Everyone should be speaking up in letters to the editor, public forums, call-in radio, online, etc. etc. I wish I could be there but I'm many states away. Most importantly, get out and ride the train or volunteer.
This is a political battle and on one side you have volunteerism, small business, history and preservation, and on the other side you have the heavy-handed Gubmint grabbing property. Get this out in the open and the train haters will crumple. This goober is running for election and it seems the perception is getting around that he's a loose cannon. Public opinion is everything to these people...let the public know what's going down!
 #1178747  by airman00
 
What these politico's and radio host's should do, is spend just ONE day doing track work with the CMRR guys and gals and see just how hard these people work. As the saying goes... don't judge a person until you've walked a mile in there shoes.
 #1178791  by DogBert
 
I want to make a strategy suggestion, this coming from a guy who's fought the occasional political battle which I've always come out on top of (mostly because I picked my battles wisely).

The CMRR site should have a blog on it. The weekly updates that are posted here should be posted there as well. Don't get me wrong - this thread and forum are awesome for connecting with the general railfan community. It has clearly helped in generating significant interest in CMRR amongst railfans. Clearly though there needs to be a very large public outreach as well, beyond railfans.

Posting this content to the website regularly will also show how truly active the railroad is. Any reporter worth their salt would find it. Think of it also as have a long list of documentation on how active the railroad is, because from the sounds of it these politicians are trying to take your tracks by saying there isn't anything happening with them (or anything good, either). It's also the perfect place to post press releases on this sort of political fiasco. Immediate public statements to this sort of thing are required. Don't be blindsided and let leave a blank for others to fill in.

That article where there is 'no comment' from the railroad, other than shock? That looks terrible. It is a lost opportunity to connect with the public that may have no idea CMRR even exists. Something like this would do: "The mayor's actions have directly blocked our volunteer efforts to remove an eyesore from the 209 crossing and remediate the lead paint issue. The mayors actions are only perpetuating a longstanding issue and are in fact illegal under state law. The mayor has in fact committed a felony with his misguided, ill advised blockage of the tracks. We have safety removed lead paint from our equipment in the past. By blocking our efforts to do so he has only perpetuated the issue and the public health issue"

I guarantee you that the average citizen of kingston is 100% ignorant of the fact that their mayor has broken the law.

You need to solicit the story to a competing, sympathetic news outlet. If one doesn't exist locally, look beyond them. huffington post, aol patch, ny times, tv news outlets. News organizations love two things: scandals and free content. You are handing a reporter a story they can make money off of. If it blows up in scandal, that reporter can do repeated stories on it, selling them around and making more money. It is in that reporters best interest to start digging into these corrupt politicians.

Example: Many years ago my brother stepped in and took over a local humane society which was being mismanaged and mired in scandal. he cleaned up the bookkeeping and the shelter (with the aid of awesome volunteers of course). He found a reporter willing to listen, and got a story run on all of the improvements made to the shelter, etc. The adoption rates went up quickly from there. It took around 6 months for all of this to happen if I recall right. The 'no comment' story was a battle lost for CMRR in the court of public opinion, but it is by no means the war. You've now witnessed the insane lengths that they will act against you, and you need to be ready for future battles because this is by no means over or a one time thing that can be ignored.

If CMRR doesn't have a lawyer on staff, you should find one. Maybe they can do some pro bono. I know the idea of paying legal fees to address this situation is a drain on resources and a distraction from the day to day work of rebuilding the railroad, but unless this is fought hard in the courts and in the court of public opinion, there will be no railroad. (a spokesperson should do the 'court of public opinion' work - not the lawyer. No one likes lawyers and it'd look like you're hiding behind one - there is no need to hide).

You might want to consider parking one of your work cars or something right next to the dump truck with a huge sign on it that reads 'this truck is parked here illegally' with a big arrow pointing at it. A URL underneath to a web page explaining the facts to the public would be nice to place right under it (see where that website blog might be handy?). It's a childish level to drop down to but guess what? This is war. These politicians for some completely insane reason want CMRR out of business. They want you gone. It is high time to bring some serious fight back against them. The facts and the law are on your side at the end of the day.

I apologize if anything said above is insulting. That's clearly not my intent. It's just clear to me from this trail talk and the mayors actions that you guys have some serious enemies who absolutely will try to destroy you. The withholding of FEMA funds, the trail funding, etc. This is war. This isn't them being inept. This is a calculated effort on their behalf to destroy CMRR. I don't know why they've chosen this course of action, but much like the Japanese in WW2, it doesn't matter why: it only matters that they have attacked. That attack must be matched and overwelmed in both the court of law and the court of public opinion. Otherwise, you loose everything.

I keep an eye on this thread all the time because I love the work you guys are doing. If more people worked as hard as you guys do, the world would be a much better place. You're great at rebuilding a railroad, but now you have to be great at waging a public relations war against these idiots.

Enough talk from me. I can help with any website related work if you guys decide to take up that suggestion. I can set it up, show you how it works (super easy), etc. Free of charge. It's only a weapon in the battle though. You need a lawyer and someone to do your PR work - someone that can respond to the press or anyone else on a moments notice, 24/7/365. It's a job that is just as important as spiking new ties.
 #1178841  by Dick H
 
As ws noted in the previous comment by Mr. Dogbert, a lawyer, paid or pro-bono is a must.
The politicians will "claim this and quote that" as "law", etc. All such claims and quites need
to be researched and challenged. The requirments of the FEMA grant need to be checked
ASAP, before the politicos get their hands in the jar. He who hesitates is lost..
 #1178864  by charlie6017
 
Lots of great advice in these above posts by DogBert, Dick H, and lvrr325. I can only offer encouragement and
reiterate the last sentence Dick added, "He who hesitates is lost."

Whatever you guys do, PLEASE don't dilly-dally and wait. You can bet Gallo and Heiney won't be!

I agree that public blogging would be huge.......get the public educated further about the great things the
Catskill Mountain Railroad has accomplished and better yet, intend to accomplish in the future!

Charlie
 #1178963  by SlowFreight
 
Dogbert has hit it on the head. His post has quite a bit of good advice. CMRR also needs to consult specifically with a commerce attorney who is knowledgeable in STB matter. This is a difficult situation, and I had no idea how bad the relationship was with CMRR's landlords and neighbors.

The railroad is in a bad spot, because right now it will be nigh impossible to get the lease renewed in 2016, judging by the lack of political support. And under specific legal circumstances, the CMRR won't be able to do anything to prevent removal of the track.
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