UP REFUSES TO CHARTER STEAM BETWEEN DENVER-GRAND JUNCTION

(1)I approached UP at top-management level earlier this year,
and offered to charter a steam passenger special from Cheyenne-
Denver-Grand Junction and return, over a weekend. As I chartered
the supersonic Concorde aircraft repeatedly over the 15-year period from 1985-2000, at costs up to $2.5 million per charter, doing a
two-day UP steam excursion would have been relative financial
and logistical "child's play."

(2)The operation would not only have made a good profit for UP,
but would have been a terrific P.R. event for it. No steam has
operated over the D&RGW line west of Denver since dieselization
in the late 1940's.

(3)One Patrick Duffy, SVP-Operations, shot my proposal down
with no comment at all...not even the courtesy of a direct reply.

(4)As readers are well-aware, the UP totally bungled its acquisition
of SP operationally, and continues to have such problems on its
main line between California and Omaha than it recently lost a huge
UPS contract to BNSF. Blame for this should fall sqaurely on the
inept shoulders of Messrs. Richard "Dick" Davidson, CEO, and
Patrick Duffy as well. However, the traffic on the D&RGW line is
nearly all coal trains, and it strains credulity that UP could not have
slotted-in one passenger train for the public benefit and for its own
profit over an autumn weekend.

(5)The "Moffat Tunnel Problem" for steam was easily solved by me:

(a)Steam hauls the special from Denver to East Portal.
(b)There, a diesel couples-on and hauls the steam special to
West Portal, with the steam power simmering uner zero load.
(c)The diesel then uncouples, and the steam special proceeds to
Grand Junction.
(d)The same method would be followed for the return to Denver.

This is the same procedure that the Boston & Maine used to haul
steam trains (behind electrics, however) through the Hoosac Tunnel
in Massachusetts (4.75 miles long), from about 1914 until dieselization
after WWII, when the catenary was removed.

**(6)UP top management should be roundly criticized for its contemptible attitude in this matter. Further, as neither 844 nor 2985 hardly travel anymore except to every-four-years national political conventions, and no trips are run at all these days for which individuals can buy tickets to ride, I would ask why UP needs its alleged "steam program" at all? Their two engines would be better-off in a museum than sitting, unused, in an inaccessible Cheyenne roundhouse.

What was your offer? 2.5 million again? Thats pennies, i would guess about 100 million or more.

Was your post a joke?

(1)A skeptical "UPRR Engineer", whose ignorant sarcasm is grossly misplaced. Strongly suggest readers go to:


http://www.concorde-spirit-tours.com

(2)The cost of such a trip would probably have been in the $100,000
range. It would have been paid for by passengers, as I didn't care
about making any profit.

(3)If this sort of reply is what I can expect, I regret wasting my time
in exposing UP's nasty attitude in refusing to charter for public trips.

Could UP's reluctance to allow this have anything to do with the liability they could incur? Please share your legal opinion on this with us, pro bono of course.

UP has a multi-million-dollar liability insurance policy. What do you
think has covered all of their prior steam trips behind #844 and
#3985 for decades now?

Hi Don,

While I am sure the UP insurance policy is way up there in value, are you saying that it is with an independent insurance company ? Some years ago, I questioned such an action of the Motor Pool of the General Dynamics Corporation. I was informed that the company was self insured. That is they were insuring themselves via appropriate funding that would also act as an investment for the company etc. I would suspect that UP and other such large companies, RR companies, would do the same. Since the amounts of money involved are quite large, it would also be understandable why small tourist attraction RR's have these insurance problems.

It is unfortunate that UP didn't choose to seize an opportunity like this. I'm not surprised that they are preoccupied with other day to day matters, as well as their now infamous licensing program (5% from everyone!)

In general, there has been much less interest in running excursions of any kind on the part of the Class I's. Although I'm not sure it's a statistically valid sample, I have heard about or read about cases in which a huge insurance liability requirement was used to, ah, let's say discourage, the backers of excursions. (The excursion operator was required to buy it, not the railroad.)

My sense is that these days, the Class I's are content to let tourist lines and short lines provide the link to the past that steam trains represent.

(1)In the event that UP maintains a large deductible ("self-insurance")
on its liability insurance policy, I would have simply gone to AMTRAK
and paid them to "operate" the steam special on paper as an AMTRAK
train. As AMTRAK's $200 million policy would have then applied, UP
would have had zero liability risk. AMTRAK has done this many times
for private-car specials and so forth.

(2)I continue to blame Richard Davidson and, in particularly, Patrick
Duffy for UP's total "anti-public" attitude toward any steam specials
with its own owned locomotives. Given this sort of short-sighted
corporate stupidity, and with hardly any operations at all over any
given year, their two locomotives belong in a museum rather than in
Cheyenne. Far better, however, would be for Davidson to finally
retire, and for Duffy to be fired for totally fouling-up the railroad for
many years now, and for more progressive management to replace them.

Regardless of whether I agree or disagree with you, I don't think your posts will ever help your case, or do more than solidify a sentiment against you for good.

Assuming you would like to run excursions elsewhere, this is likely not the way to go abut it.

I sympathize with you, and would like to see steam run almost as much as you do.

Dave Becker

DonPevsner wrote:UP has a multi-million-dollar liability insurance policy. What do you
think has covered all of their prior steam trips behind #844 and
#3985 for decades now?

Thanks. I didn't know they had a multi-million dollar liability insurance policy- that's why I asked.

I thought maybe donations from foamers covered their previous steam trips- or maybe Steve, Bob & Lynn pooled their NOP Brass Latch trivia winnings to cover them.

Well knowing the priority the circus (none, it was put away a few time so some hot manifest trains could get around it) train got here a few weeks ago, I am sure the steam excursion would only hamper operations. The RR has enough on it's hands without extra movements from outside sources I am sure they are thinking back east. I know the Orient Express fouls up things when it runs out here and the dispatchers makes no bones about it either.

He he, you should try being on a BNSF train on he UP.

Hi GN,

I have heard that. Seems that UP dispatchers will not give priority to other RR's. Heard that about BNSF having to wait for the UP train to pass. And, this one became a law suit; Metrolink has to wait for UP trains. The Metrolink Riverside line is just a fraction of what it used to be since Metrolink trains have a problem keeping to their schedules.

Along with UPRREngineer, I'm a little confused as well ...

When did you propose that this trip occur? Did it conflict with other dates that they already had something scheduled? How about the maintenance windows over there? Did you check your dates against those?

If "Patrick" Duffy didn't reply, there's probably good reason - the SVP Operations name is _Dennis_ Duffy.

And also, who responded officially to your inquiry?

Imagine that. The largest railroad in the US, not wanting to host some railfans idea of a fun weekend outing. I'm outraged. They could easily juggle the schedules of all of their trains, to accomodate this whim.......