UP REFUSES TO CHARTER STEAM BETWEEN DENVER-GRAND JUNCTION

Sounds like a little rich boy who got told NO for the first time in his life

go cry yourself a river for us...

Hi Golden etc.,

Probably more complicated than that. Steve Lee runs the Steam Operations at UP, and in his words, with limited budget. So as usual the bottom line is economics. Right after that is scheduling. He has a schedule for the year, and if your excursion interferes with that schedule guess what happens ? Of course, givens sufficient money, and schedule time, no problems. Where would you like # 3985 to take you and back ?

I am fortunate enough to work for a railroad that has a ''working museum''. The only thing we are missing is Alcos. Yes we do have F units, techinically. F7's with the traction motors removed for rotary snow plow power plants. I can say Ive heard an ex NP F-unit I idling on the BNSF. I would like to see the SP&S 700 out more but given the conjestion and manpower shortage the BNSF and UP are both faced with in a lot of places I think they have bigger fish to fry than excursions as sad of a reality as it is.

Don, its an ignorant idea.

"Hi guys, can i take out the pride of Union Pacific for a railfan trip?"............ "HAHAHAHAHA.....NO Don, NO YOU CANT!!!"

UPRR engineer wrote:Don, its an ignorant idea.

"Hi guys, can i take out the pride of Union Pacific for a railfan trip?"............ "HAHAHAHAHA.....NO Don, NO YOU CANT!!!"

We need to quit picking on Don- after all he's the" famous lawyer, tour promoter & consumer advocate. With those credentials we should just let him have his way. As previously mentioned he probably has never been told "No Don, you can't do that".

He may go into a pout and throw in the towel. That would be disappointing- I'm planning to treat the little woman I live with to a first class trip on his November, 2007 "Around the world over both the Earth's Poles" tour on a 747. At a cost of $30,990 it sounds like a good deal. ( I wonder if drinks are included)

Would any of you guys like to join us?

Asking to take out one of our steam engines is right up there with asking President Bush to stay in the White House, tag along with the astronauts on a space shuttle launch.

Pick up our fuel bill for the next ten years, after that ya might have a chance Don. Gotta give ya credit for having the balls to ask. What kinda chance did you think you had? 50/50? 100%? What was your price offer?

UP top management should be roundly criticized for its contemptible attitude in this matter. Further, as neither 844 nor 2985 hardly travel anymore except to every-four-years national political conventions, and no trips are run at all these days for which individuals can buy tickets to ride, I would ask why UP needs its alleged "steam program" at all? Their two engines would be better-off in a museum than sitting, unused, in an inaccessible Cheyenne roundhouse.

This paragraph says it all. Like all rail fanatics they become possesive over engines that aren't even theirs. And when they are told no, they get all pissy. This is why rail fans tend to have a bad name with rail roads.

Then again, it looks like 'ol donny boy isn't exactly a diplomat when it comes to the UP. This might have been a reason they said no. (from March 17th, 2004)

DonPevsner wrote:(1)First, UP Chairman Dick Davidson mangled the C&NW takeover.
(2)Next, he made the SP takeover the laughing-stock of the railroad
industry, and very nearly ruined his entire railroad in the process.
(3)UP cannot run its trains on time; routinely has trains outlaw;
lost a high-speed UPS contract due to "meltdown"; mishandles AMTRAK's
"SUNSET LIMITED" grotesquely on a routine basis; et al.
(4)Finally, from the railfan perspective, his minions recently rejected
my own request to charter #844 or #3985 to run a steam passenger
special over the Rio Grande side from Denver to Glenwood Springs
and return, in October, 2005. I easily solved the Moffat Tunnnel
"steam problem" by suggesting to Steve Lee that a diesel haul the
entire consist (with a simmering steam locomotive) both ways through
the Moffat Tunnel. Yet, UP "management" refused to run ONE TRAIN
nearly a year from now over a secondary route, on the grounds of
"poor liquidity on the railroad." The great builders and past leaders
of the UP are doubtless turning over in their graves at the shambles
that the Davidson regime has made of the railroad. How can this
destructive and incompetent executive still be running the show? UP appears to be spending more time tampering with grade-crossing accident evidence (per a recent NEW YORK TIMES expose) than fixing its sagging product. Any responsible Board of Directors would have tossed
him out on his ear at least a year ago.

I was fortunate enough to check out the 3985 last summer. I think its cool they even have a steam program.

UPRR engineer wrote:Asking to take out one of our steam engines is right up there with asking President Bush to stay in the White House, tag along with the astronauts on a space shuttle launch.

Pick up our fuel bill for the next ten years, after that ya might have a chance Don. Gotta give ya credit for having the balls to ask. What kinda chance did you think you had? 50/50? 100%? What was your price offer?

Looks like he doing a silent treatment thing. Or is he out riding a CSX test train with our buddy Jay Potter?

What doya think?

I guess im gifted when it comes to chasing off attorneys that post here.

I would like to know the answers to my questions there Don.

Perhaps he is simply excercising his 5th amendment rights..............

I didn't know that the "right to remain silent to prevent looking like a complete idiot" was the fifth amendment.

(1)With the caliber of THE MOST-RECENT, PAGE 2 REPLIES in this matter, I am delighted to have washed my hands of it.

(2)Do any of you buffoons understand that this would have been
a profitable trip for UP, on a line that sees far fewer trains than the
main line? And that I didn't care whether or not I made a profit for
my financial risk?

(3)Not a single one of you has attempted to refute or deny a single
issue that I raised in either my 2004 or 2006 postings, as to UP's
scandalously-inept top management. I dare you to try, as you don't have the facts on your side. [Try reading THE NEW YORK TIMES or
THE WALL STREET JOURNAL instead of THE NATIONAL ENQUIRER
sometime.]

(4)Not a single one of you has ever lifted a finger to try to give
area railfans the opportunity to ride an historic steam fan trip over the
former D&RGW main line. This would doubtless interfere with your
choice of leisure pursuits, as set forth below. Further, defending Steve
Lee and his crew for sitting on their well-paid butts rather than running
steam over the UP system is a sick-joke. Why bother to maintain
two UP steam locomotives when they virtually never run?

(5)Class-resentment will get you absolutely nowhere, but just betrays
your own insecurity and stupidity. However, if you wish to engage me
in "poor little rich boy"-type class warfare, here is what I think of your
semi-literate little claque...MEANING the morons who have chosen to
attack me on class and profession-related issues, rather than STICK TO
THE FACTS:

You are a mindless bunch of low-class, self-congratulatory fools, with your love of cigarettes; beer; tattoos; meaningless corporate spectator-sports (don't forget TV wrestling); hunting skills; ratty pickup trucks (American-made, of course); Neanderthal, religion-driven politics that cause the election of dangerous idiots like George "Dubya" Bush; scaggy, long hair, including anachronistic ponytails, as some sort of tribal, blue-collar fashion "statement"; wretched, whiny country music that would make any civilized person gag; plus pot bellies, diabetes, multiple squalid divorces, alienated co-workers and children, occasional jail terms, nonexistent higher education and average I.Q.'s below 100. I have seen far too many of you clowns in over 55 years of my railroad hobby, and deeply resent having to share that hobby with the likes of you.

(4)Happy railfanning, you pathetic pack of losers. And don't
waste my time with further rantings.

Resorting to ad hominem attacks on those you had hoped to gain support from is never a great way to win influence. Next time, lurk longer, figure out who you should get to support your arguments and try to win their support.

Better formatting might have helped too.

You have no idea who we are, let alone our education level. The big picture here is the fact that Class 1 railroads have neither the time nor the interest to support an excursion of this sort. Railroads are a business and they could care less about our interest in them, historic or otherwise. Yes it is sad that they wont consider your offer but alot of guys on here, myself included are the ones out here operating these trains and help the railroads run their business. We see firsthand what their priorities are. With the liability of a UP crew having to pilot such an venture is enough for them to say no. I am sorry your attempt at chartering such an affair failed. Furthermore I am sorry for the amount of disdain and disrespect you have toward the men and women who operate the trains that make railroading a hobby.