Up-Grade The CZ

Now that Amtrak is out of the Mail & Express business, I’m proposing they up-grade an existing service.

Take the CZ for example and offer a service comparable to VIA’s “Silver & Blue Class” (CZ Silver Service??) No need to run extra cars. Hand pick the attendants and designate one of the sleepers and a portion of the diner to offer this up-graded service. The cars are running anyway and if revenue can be increased with little effort, why not? If AOE can charge double the fare and people will pay, why wouldn’t they on Amtrak if offered personalized service?

If I have properly read your posting, Mr. BNSF, your idea is to offer two classes of Sleeping Car service.

Interesting.

The only problem I must note is that "hand picking' Service Attendants cannot unilaterally be done by Amtrak as such would have to be negotiated through the collective bargaining process.

Anycase, welcome to our Forum.

GBN
Forum Moderator

Car availability (this has been edited per Mr Madison and GBN) appears to be a non-problem, since 5 and 6 are captive routes (vice 3 and 4). Does anyone know the timetable and tariff language used for substitute equipment? I'd be livid if I paid a super-premium fare and got either a bus-stitution or a coach-stitution.

Next, we don't often talk about the interior condition of the cars, but they had jolly well better be PRISTINE. Trust me, pristine is the LAST word I would use for the car that took me west this past winter on the CZ.

Third, let's talk about the SL upper berth in a (euphemism warning) "roomette" ... btw, did folks here know on the website, Amtrak is still advertising the enclosed section as an accommodation for two??? The upper is NOT a bed for an adult. I think my backpacking sleeping pad is wider than that thing!. Certainly, the thin pad they call a mattress for the lower is less than wonderful.

Fourth, let's talk about accommodations: AOE does not go below the classic "Double Bedroom" footprint. From what I see on their website, they use a bed lengthwise DBR as a single, and the bed crosswise DBR as a double. BTW, the footprint of a bed crosswise DBR is about 26 sq ft, and has private facilities, vice the enclosed section of a SL car.

Fifth, let's talk about menus: Here is the current advertising from the AOE website:

"Dinner features five courses, with several entrée selections. Broiled lobster with dilled new potatoes and asparagus could be served in New England, while braised duck with plum sauce, wild rice and baby zucchini are plated in Saskatchewan. In the Deep South, the bayou country sets the mood for the evening's crab etouffee and Creole fare.

From the Copper Canyon to the Canadian Rockies, we select only the freshest seasonal, local ingredients from markets and vendors in towns and cities along our routes. While you're touring off-train, the chef is shopping. Our hand-selected vegetables, herbs, seafood, meats and other ingredients are the freshest and finest available."

http://www.americanorientexpress.com/ht ... ining.html

Contrast this with Amtrak:

Dining Cars

"Most of Amtrak's long-distance trains include a full-service dining car, which serves hot meals prepared onboard for breakfast, lunch and dinner to both First Class and Coach Class passengers. All meals for First Class passengers are included in the price of their train ticket while coach class passengers may dine for an additional charge. Hours of operation of food-service cars vary depending on train operation.

"On long-distance trains, we use arotating menu plan, ensuring a variety of meal selections. The system allows passengers to choose from one menu on their outbound trip and enjoy a different menu on the return trip."

One thing I have not seen is an "order of magnitude" comparision cost for a days travel between full tariff Amtrak First Class and AOE. That might be interesting.

Finally, Welcome to our madness. We may bark and bite, but it's generally good natured debate

Afraid that in the near future we may only have the AOE to savor long distance/overnight train travel!

I'm all for any way for Amtrak to increase revenue through improved service. Perhaps something "extra" for the deluxe rooms besides a larger space. I don't know what that could be, though.

Regarding equipment substitution, the current practice if you get downgraded from a premium accommodation is to refund the accommodation charge for the segment not used.

For example, in January 2003, I was booked on the Viewliner from Boston to Chicago, but the car was blanked. They refunded my accommodation charge. I still convinced the dining car staff to give me complimentary meals and managed to get into the metropolitan lounge in Chicago, and also got a $50 voucher after complaining to Amtrak customer service.

In May 2004 I was on the Eagle through car LAX-CHI, but we were bussed from San Antonio to Dallas account missed connection. I had to go to customer service in Chicago, but I was refunded the accommodation charge for the SAS-DAL segment (which amounted to $42).

Afraid that in the near future we may only have the AOE to savor long distance/overnight train travel!

If Amtrak long distance bites the dust, AOE will probably do the same. AOE currently uses Amtrak power, though I guess they could buy their own locomotives if need be. But the big problem is that without Amtrak's right to operate on freight tracks at a low price, including the right to operate charters, AOE would be stuck negotiating with freight railroads on its own. I would expect the freights to either (1) charge a lot more, forcing AOE to charge a lot more, thereby driving away potential customers, or (2) tell AOE "not interested in the business at any price."

AOE owns their own Locomotive an F40 also I like Mr. I like BNSF Idea but I have some concerns over it
1. What if you get bussed? If I paid that kind of Fare I'd be annoyed
2. The Standards are for one My Dog is bigger than the 2nd Bed plus my Dad who is 6'2 can't fit well in those.
3. Car Condition the Cars badly need work only if Congress would give $1.8 Billion
4. Food Service in the Diner; Sleeper passengers, I think, should eat Lunch and Dinner first before Coach; Breakfast excepted.
5. OTP is a big Issue for 5/6 UTTERLY PATHETIC this train is frequently at least an 1hr. Late.
6. They would need Regional Menus like they had in the old days.
7. Welcome to our Forum Mr. I Like BNSF
AmtrakFan

Amtrak's first mission, whether we like it or not, is transportation - it is not intended or designed to be a Santa Fe Super Chief, a NYC 20th Century or even an AOE. AOE is a luxury land cruise experience, and is priced accordingly. Amtrak will never be AOE, which is part of the reason why AOE exists

Comparisons to VIA are also not relevant here. VIA is a government program in a country that has embraced a modified form of Socialism. (not that there's anything wrong with that) With that comes a more willing national mindset to allow for services like VIA. Also, VIA's sole trans-continental route is a tri-weekly service that is essentially another land cruise designed to promote Canada.

Dining car service, as has been documented on this and numerous other sites ad nauseum (probably not the best choice of cliche when one is talking about dining cars, huh? ) never made a profit, even in the "good old days" of cheap labor when - as I understand - sleeping car passengers did not enjoy complimentary meals as part of their ticket price (as Amtrak allows). Labor and food costs are why you don't see creative menus and adequate culinary staff on Amtrak Dining Cars.

Finally, let's talk roomettes: Why should Amtrak say that a two bed accomodation is not suitable for two adults just because some adults are not comfortable in those accomodations? The room dimensions are clearly stated in the Amtrak print publications, on the Amtrak website, and (in my experience) with the phone reps. Simply put, do your homework or caveat emptor.

Instead of certain routes being upgraded, I would much rather see a return to the amenities of Amtrak circa mid-80's: adequate staffing and supervision, with nice little touches (wine, stationary, etc) for sleeping car passengers.

MR UPDCG,

I think I agree with you, especially on the amenities in the 80s (and even as late as 97 or so).

I agree with you on Caveat Emptor for the enclosed section. I'm as much a passenger equipment technobuff as I am a railfan or advocate. Humanity cannot convince me that an enclosed section is or ever will be a roomette. The closest parallel really is a "double slumbercoach."

My two cents. Others will agree to disagree with me. That's ok, too

It appears that we are having some good discussion on this topic.

I note Mr. Drumcorps' comment regarding the suitability of a "post Nov 1' Roomette for occupancy by two adults. While of course, i repsect Mr. Drumcorps' thoughts, I sincerely believe that when Amtrak reservationists are handling an iquiiry regarding double occupancy of a Roomette, they ought to advise the passenger that even though the accomodation is (wisely) equipped with two beds, it is predominately a single occupancy accomodation, with the second bed intended for such as an adult and small child, or two adolescents. The sale for two adults should only be completed after having made the prospective passenger aware the compact size of the accomodation.

As I have noted here before, I have had too many trips over the years to Florida on both the Star and Auto Train (can only recall riding an SAL Meteor - never an Amtrak) where I have noted adverse comments regarding double occupancy of a Roomette. I for one, absent emergency, would not consider such.

I realize that Amtrak was confronted with a dilemma when the "in the bag' funding for 100 Viewliners suddenly became 50. Confronted with the reality, they wisely opted to sleep as many as possible by deliberately "weighting' the available accomodations towards Roomettes. Absent the LD now having contracted a "terminal illness", there WILL be more single level Sleepers in the fleet. When that comes to pass, I'm certain that the configuration of the new cars will be considerably more weighted towards Bedrooms. That is where the demand is, and as one time bank robber Willie Sutton once noted "that's where the money is".

I was in a Standard Room my self one time My Mom and my Brother were in the Next one Dad met us out there. On that Trip I was thinking how can you fit 2 in there?

AmtrakFan

We will be lucky to get the new Congress to approve what we have. If opponents can point to luxury service for the few, we will have even less.

Will the all the involved states support it may be the only valid question about any service existing or new. And the the answer is usually going to be NO.

I was thinking, Amtrak-Wide, that their should be two clases of sleepers, Economy(Open Sections, Roomettes, and Double Slumbercoaches), and Deluxe(Double Bedrooms, Drawing Rooms, and even something like the Southern's Master Bedrooms).

updrumcorpsguy wrote:Why should Amtrak say that a two bed accomodation is not suitable for two adults just because some adults are not comfortable in those accomodations? The room dimensions are clearly stated in the Amtrak print publications, on the Amtrak website, and (in my experience) with the phone reps. Simply put, do your homework or caveat emptor.

Well put. There are plenty of us married couples who are perfectly happy in a roomette.

As for the original topic, the most probable service upgrade (though not likely in the immediate future), would be the addition of a Mountain Parlour Car, much as we have on the Starlight. The CZ could certainly use a second lounge car, as the one Sightseer lounge is inadequate to handle the demand on this most scenic of routes. IMHO, Amtrak's ultimate goal should be to have a Parlour Car on every LD train.

A Mountain Parlour Car? Go for it, also, while we are at it, build some kind of a modern version of the Milwakee Road's Sky Top Observation Lounges, perhaps made in Colorado by Colorado Railcar.