Twin State Railroad

Was up in Littleton last week during my vacation, and biked the entire length of the Amonoosuc Rail-Trail, the ex-B&M from Woodsville up to Littleton. My first ride on this was from Lisbon to Littleton and was surprised to see the rail-trail extend past the book stopping point of Industrial Park Rd. Once you got past that point, the trail is only open to non-motorized traffic. Its pretty primitive right now... a narrow single track trail pretty much, no bollards/gates near the xings, etc. Getting across Rt 10/302 (Cottage St) by the station is a little challenging, with not even a crosswalk. Made it as far as the "second iron" east of the station at around Beacon St before I decided to turn around and head back.

I have heard they want to extend towards Whitefield and perhaps connect with the Presidential Rail-Trail (which runs from Waumbeck Jct east to Gorham and Berlin, which I also rode). If they did that, then I could see perhaps, to maintain the Conway Scenic outside world connection, relay the line from Quebec Jct to Waumbeck Jct. Then its a straight shot, vs the present backwards move at Hazens. And then the rail-trail would be continuous on the entire ex-B&M line from Woodsville up to Berlin. In all honesty, the north country was overbuilt with railroads which may have made sense in the late 1800s but didn't past the 1920s, and even less make sense now. If nothing is to become of the Mountain Division west of Whitefield, then perhaps it should be yanked out a bit past Quebec Jct, and with the line to Waumbeck put back in to maintain the connection.

I did see the US 3 crossing at Twin Mtn is now marked "EXEMPT". This is on CSRR property. Perhaps they just don't go up that way enough to maintain it to the standards and would have to flag the crossing anyway.

And, for the record, I am pro-rail. While I enjoy biking rail-trails, I believe that rail service should come first. But, let's be honest here... there's not much prospect for keeping all the mileage in this area. Same goes for the Mountain Division from Fryeburg down to the Portland area. Its been in state control for decades now, and if noone to date has come up with an idea that would be profitable, then its probably not going to happen. When the paper mills were generating traffic, it all made sense, but much of that is gone now. We're not talking about ripping up an active rail line that could become a commuter route or something, 'cause that I'm opposed to.

At some point, some entity is going to have to build some kind of transportation infrastructure, more than just bike paths. And we're going to be screwed because any rail that is inactive, not even oos, in 2023 will probably get torn up soon. It's only been about six months since CSX took control of PAR and they think Freight Rail is worth investing in, yet the US has completely written off the entire manufacturing sector. Hmm... what state in New England would have the lowest taxes and access to natural resources that manufacturers might someday be interested in, assuming rail access was available?

CSRR's still has whatever's going on politically with the Maine portion (check the Mountain Division/CSRR threads for that) but there's slim chances currently for the line from Whitefield-St. Johnsbury, to be honest. There's little in the way of freight-serviceable industries on the Twin State stretch, not to mention the scenery's more of the same.

Unless Conway Scenic brings the state of Maine to court, it's a non-issue, the Governor already signed the bill into law for the rail to be removed. MEDOT can pull the rail as soon as the funds are available.
The crossings up by Twin Mountain have been exempt for years, back in the MEC days, they had lights and bells but when the Conway Scenic leased the line, the lights and bells were removed and now the crossings must be flagged.
The goal is to join the two rail trails together, but it's a long way off from happening; they still need NHC to vacate their lease and the state to abandon or at least railbank the remainder. I've only heard the rumor about rebuilding the tracks to Quebec Junction, so Waumbek Jct, to Hazen can be trailed. A lot of money and work would be required for this to happen, maybe grants can cover most, if not all of it? If NHC wants to keep their options open for the Gilman Mill, then the section between Waumbek Jct and Hazens, via Quebec Jct, would need to be unabandoned for common carrier shipments. From Hazen's down to the diamond can be left uninterrupted since both trail and rail can co-exist. If NHC gives up the whole thing but keeps the interchange with the Conway Scenic, I would hope the Conway Scenic would want to lease down to the old MEC railyard in Whitefield for "Red Ball" Specials. Interchange with NHC could take place at Quebec Jct or Waumbek, depending on the legalities. But this is all moot for now.

Does CSX ownership end at the VT bordered or do they own down to the diamond, that part never seems clear to me?

CSRX may have a case if they tell the state of Maine they didn’t follow their own laws in passing the bill (some subtext in a law about checking in with regional economic and transportation committees about the ordeal. MEDOT contacted neither). Of course, then you’re trying to work out an operating plan with a state that suddenly doesn’t like you that much, and thus there’s the mess. That’s beyond the scope of here though.

If I recall, CSX doesn’t even own to the VT border. If the New Hampshire Central Railroad website is to be believed, CSX ownership ends in Gilman probably just before the paper mill spur. NHCR owns the rest into NH.

NHCR doesn't own any of that track. It's all NHDOT owned, up to the bridge at the border, with MEC (CSXT) owning at least the western, if not entire portion into Vermont.

Does NHCR own any track or is all of it leased by NHDOT?

NHCR is the operator/lessee, the state has owned their operating routes for a few decades.

Goddraug wrote: ↑Tue Aug 22, 2023 9:23 am CSRX may have a case if they tell the state of Maine they didn’t follow their own laws in passing the bill (some subtext in a law about checking in with regional economic and transportation committees about the ordeal. MEDOT contacted neither). Of course, then you’re trying to work out an operating plan with a state that suddenly doesn’t like you that much, and thus there’s the mess. That’s beyond the scope of here though.

I doubt the state of Maine particularly cares; some pro-trail groups pushed the bill through the legislature, but unless I'm mistaken, money still has to be found for the project. If CSRX were to come forward with an alternative for which money doesn't have to be found, well, the state's money could be put to other uses.

But frankly, I wonder if CSRX wouldn't be biting off more than it can chew. There's surely no profit in running a railroad between Fryeburg and Portland, or someone would already be doing it.

I think a big reason why such an idea was left alone (along with others, it probably wouldn’t be profitable without something additional like tourist service) is that any company looking to operate something resembling freight would have to do business with Pan Am Railways as an interchange partner. I’ve watched critically acclaimed horror films with less terrifying premises than that. Now there’s a new kid on the block who seems willing to play nicer.

Regardless, that’s the eastern end of the Mountain Division and is not suited for this thread. To try and steer things back has anything happened at all with the Gilman mill site recently or is it still just a shuttered brick building?

I drove past the old Gilman Mill last month, it looks completely abandoned and condemned, I definitely don't see that ever being a company again... at least not in the near future!

The dam/hydro portion is maintained, but everything else is pretty much as it's been the last 20 years.

I remember reading an article about some upgrades to the old Gilman mill, didn't the state of Vermont or at least the county, have a new roof installed or at least make necessary repairs to the roof? I thought the project was part of a package deal, that included upgrades to the electrical and fire suppression systems. The goal of the upgrades was to hopefully attract a business or businesses to move in. Did that all happen or was it just talk? It would've been within the last 10 years.

Likely for the proposed pellet mill that never went anywhere.

BandA wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2023 5:37 pm Hmm... what state in New England would have the lowest taxes and access to natural resources that manufacturers might someday be interested in, assuming rail access was available?

i assume NH for the former. the latter, ME is the answer. far more natural resources, really, than the other 5 states combined. certainly a better infrastructure for accessing those resources (mainly forest products).