Trolleys Running In Pairs

Trackseventeen wrote:3 car revenue service on the P&W is/was impossible only because of station length.... Any pictures of 3 car trains are most likely rail-fan excursions [excersions].

Actually not impossible, but very inconvenient. I have admittedly dim memories of a single occasion 3-car consist back in the 1970s. Platform access was addressed by telling passengers headed for specific stations (e.g. Ardmore Jct., Bryn Mawr) to ride in the end car. The driver spotted the end car for people getting off, and the other 2 for boarding. Once the end car was empty, other stations including the old Norristown terminal were handled as usual.

You're probably thinking of the Liberty Liners (nee Electroliner): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroliner
They were actually 4 car articulated trainsets, so they were able to platform their front door at the small P&W platform. Its the train on the left in this picture: http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?16762

actually, here's a good picture of it too: http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?46046

If I'm not mistaken Red Arrow cut a door or two into the Electroliners when they got them second hand from Chicago North Shore and Milwaukee.

tinmad dog wrote:You're probably thinking of the Liberty Liners (nee Electroliner)

Nope. It was definitely three Bullets, and only on one or two occasions. I knew the Electroliners well - rode them regularly, sometimes even specially arranging my schedule so I could be on one of the two afternoon trips.

gardendance wrote:If I'm not mistaken Red Arrow cut a door or two into the Electroliners when they got them second hand from Chicago North Shore and Milwaukee.

Correct.

Just found this thread. The picture you seek is 2 pictures down on this page.
http://www.philadelphiatransitvehicles. ... rurban.php

You know, if they run 4-car consists on the 101, they can almost halve the number of stops. "Exit at the front for Huey, rear for School Lane".

The kawasakis can only run in pairs.

The N5s can run up to 4 at least, I may have a video clip of that somwhere.

This winter during the last snow storm they had a 3 car set running around in the "zero gravity" train.

Operationally anything more than 2 cars is a pain since it can't go into 69th st.
The platform tracks are only 2 cars long, and a 3 car won't clear the signals at the platforms.

60 Car, please provide documentation or explain further what you mean?

Why can the kawasakis can only run in pairs? I'm sure you meant they can run only up to 2 cars, since they usually run as singles:), but I'd appreciate knowing why you think they cannot run more than 2 cars. I can believe it'd be difficult to have 3 car or longer trains running on the streets of Philly, Clifton and Media, and probably the subway signals might not like trains that long, and probably there's no reason to need to run trains that long, but I don't understand why it should be impossible.

What's the "zero gravity" train?

I am surprised to hear that 69th st's platform tracks are only 2 cars long, I thought they could get at least one door of a 3 car train in. I know nothing about signal placement, so your comment about not clearing makes sense.

gardendance wrote:60 Car, please provide documentation or explain further what you mean?

Why can the kawasakis can only run in pairs? I'm sure you meant they can run only up to 2 cars, since they usually run as singles:), but I'd appreciate knowing why you think they cannot run more than 2 cars. I can believe it'd be difficult to have 3 car or longer trains running on the streets of Philly, Clifton and Media, and probably the subway signals might not like trains that long, and probably there's no reason to need to run trains that long, but I don't understand why it should be impossible.

What's the "zero gravity" train?

I am surprised to hear that 69th st's platform tracks are only 2 cars long, I thought they could get at least one door of a 3 car train in. I know nothing about signal placement, so your comment about not clearing makes sense.

I have a pamphlet from Kawasaki saying they can run up to 6 cars together (dunno why they would though but I guess it's good to have that kind of flexibility).

ekt8750 wrote:

gardendance wrote:60 Car, please provide documentation or explain further what you mean?

Why can the kawasakis can only run in pairs? I'm sure you meant they can run only up to 2 cars, since they usually run as singles:), but I'd appreciate knowing why you think they cannot run more than 2 cars. I can believe it'd be difficult to have 3 car or longer trains running on the streets of Philly, Clifton and Media, and probably the subway signals might not like trains that long, and probably there's no reason to need to run trains that long, but I don't understand why it should be impossible.

What's the "zero gravity" train?

I am surprised to hear that 69th st's platform tracks are only 2 cars long, I thought they could get at least one door of a 3 car train in. I know nothing about signal placement, so your comment about not clearing makes sense.

I have a pamphlet from Kawasaki saying they can run up to 6 cars together (dunno why they would though but I guess it's good to have that kind of flexibility).

6 Kawasakis running together? That would be quite a picture.

loufah wrote:You know, if they run 4-car consists on the 101, they can almost halve the number of stops. "Exit at the front for Huey, rear for School Lane".

I got a good laugh out of that!

ekt8750 wrote:I have a pamphlet from Kawasaki saying they can run up to 6 cars together (dunno why they would though but I guess it's good to have that kind of flexibility).

I have seen that pamphlet, as well as an operating instruction book for the Kawasaki fleet. They can be coupled in trains of up to 6 cars, but they can ONLY be coupled in even number increments (2 car train, 4 car train, 6 car train). The manual went on to state that if for some reason an odd number of cars had to be run (3 car or 5 car train), the odd car (presumably the rear car) had to be electrically isolated from the train.

Silverliner II wrote:

ekt8750 wrote:I have a pamphlet from Kawasaki saying they can run up to 6 cars together (dunno why they would though but I guess it's good to have that kind of flexibility).

I have seen that pamphlet, as well as an operating instruction book for the Kawasaki fleet. They can be coupled in trains of up to 6 cars, but they can ONLY be coupled in even number increments (2 car train, 4 car train, 6 car train). The manual went on to state that if for some reason an odd number of cars had to be run (3 car or 5 car train), the odd car (presumably the rear car) had to be electrically isolated from the train.

6 cars? That's almost enough to stretch 6 stops!

scotty269 wrote:

Silverliner II wrote:

ekt8750 wrote:I have a pamphlet from Kawasaki saying they can run up to 6 cars together (dunno why they would though but I guess it's good to have that kind of flexibility).

I have seen that pamphlet, as well as an operating instruction book for the Kawasaki fleet. They can be coupled in trains of up to 6 cars, but they can ONLY be coupled in even number increments (2 car train, 4 car train, 6 car train). The manual went on to state that if for some reason an odd number of cars had to be run (3 car or 5 car train), the odd car (presumably the rear car) had to be electrically isolated from the train.

6 cars? That's almost enough to stretch 6 stops!

And remember, that's not only for the Double Ended Suburban K's but also the Single End City K's as well. Wouldn't that be a sight turning at 49th and Woodland.....

redarrow5591 wrote:And remember, that's not only for the Double Ended Suburban K's but also the Single End City K's as well. Wouldn't that be a sight turning at 49th and Woodland.....

Imagine trying to be able to hold a power off going through the section breaks...

The section break on 42nd Street at Baltimore is in a nasty spot for southbound cars on the diversion route. The car stop is practically at a point where the poles either barely clear or stop just short of the break when the operators have to stop to check the switch position (lined to 42nd Street or Baltimore Avenue). I watched a half-dozen cars almost stop right in the gap when they stopped to check the switch. One trolley DID get caught in the gap, and went dead, but when he released the brakes, he drifted back a couple feet back onto live wire and got a start to get through the gap again.