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  • Towing Steam Locomotives?

  • Discussion of steam locomotives from all manufacturers and railroads
Discussion of steam locomotives from all manufacturers and railroads

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 #693807  by 3rdrail
 
That's an interesting question that I have absolutely no answer for, but have wondered myself. I would suspect that for any long distance that certain pistons would have to be removed. Removing major rods would cause driving wheels to be unbalanced as they were counter-weighted for the rods, which might make for a dangerous operating condition even in tow.
 #693821  by pennsy
 
When # 3751 was moved to Redondo Junction from Colton for refurbishment and restoration, it was towed, backwards, by two GP-7's at a maximum speed of 30 mph. All moving parts on the big Northern were well lubricated before the move. The big steamer has been in active service ever since.
 #693839  by 3rdrail
 
The big thing that I wonder about, Alan, is the fact that presumably the cylinder, steam ports, etc etc etc are all in a vacuum which then is forced to run without positive pressure. How does the negative force put upon all these parts effect them ? (or does it effect them at all ?)
 #693855  by pennsy
 
Didn't see any special arrangements for the 3751 but that doesn't mean that provisions had not been made to make the transfer as easy as possible, including breaking vacuums etc. The slow speed probably helped as well. Took a long time to complete the trip.
 #694059  by CarterB
 
Dunno how they'd do it today, but back in the 1950s/60s when hundreds were being scapped, I used to see whole lines of steam locos being hauled to scrap yards with side rods intact but main rods taken off.
 #694260  by rlsteam
 
In my recollection, in many cases the main rods weren't removed for towing "dead" -- only the connecting rod between the eccentric crank and the valve gear link (did I get the terminology right?), and then the piston would be removed so the crosshead movement from the main rod would not create cylinder pressure. (I have photos of engines in both states.) In some cases only the valve gear rod was removed and presumably the valves were positioned in such a way that pressure and vacuum from the piston movement were minimized. Practice varied by railroad. Usually "dead" engines were towed in slower-moving local freights, but if being moved in road freights at higher speed presumably either the main rod or the piston was removed. -- Richard Leonard
 #694451  by 3rdrail
 
You know, now that I think about it, it seems as if loco manufacturers would install pressure sealed areas with a "bleeder valve" which could be opened for this very purpose, would it not ? They would also come in handy to drain systems during maintenance. My home water system has them, why not locos ?
 #694879  by johnthefireman
 
In South Africa nowadays we usually try to haul steam locomotives in light steam. That way the hydrostatic lubricator is working and providing lubrication to the pistons and valves at the front end. Back in 2004 I fired a 15F which was being towed by electric locos on a 300 km trip from Pietermaritzberg to Ficksberg, which took us around 40 hours including water and other stops. There's a speed limit - can't remember exactly but it might be 30 or 35 kph. This is now a reasonably common occurrence as Transnet Freight Rail (the national railway company) does not allow steam locomotives to work on certain core lines, so to get them to where they're needed for special charters and tourist workings they need to be hauled by diesel or electric traction.

When hauling dead engines which, for whatever reason, can't be steamed, we remove the connecting rods. We did this recently to haul another 15F about 5 km from one depot to another, but a few years back we had to remove the rods to haul the same 15F about 160 km when she sprang a major firebox leak whilst working away from home.

When we're just shunting dead steam locos around the depot we open the cylinder cocks and pour a lot of oil on the front end.
 #701749  by railfilm
 
If the boiler was operating (at least partially with low pressure) they fired up to get enough steam to the cylinders and with that steam and all other working equipment (mainly lubricators) the steam engine was able for ride.
If this was not the case the driving rods where removed - it was also a standard procedure when on the normal operating locomotives the cylinders became faulty. In such case the fireman and the engineer removed the driving roads and were waiting for the pulling locomotive.
It was described in user manual what speed is allowed for each type of locomotive for such motion. (There is also the full desription for such events)
 #702318  by Steffen
 
If you tow a cold steam engine, you can remove the excentric rod to the expansion link. The expansion link was set to neutral position in mid gear and fixed. The union link to the combination lever was also removed the the lever fixed in middle, the vertical position.
The piston rod wasn't removed, as even the piston wasn't removed. Only if the pistion or the piston box was damaged, the drive rod had to be removed and the drive rod was fixed on the running plate.

But to tow a cold locomotive, maybe to transport it from one place to another, without any damages known on the locomotive, you can run the engine with grease steam, just to ensure enough boiler temperature and pressure to keep the feed pump alive, and ensure little steam for lubrication and cooling of the cylinder slide box walls.
If you want no personal on the steamer, well, you simply remove the thick cylinder or hot steam oil, and replace that with a more liquid oil, like those for the axle boxes.
Adujst and fix the valve gear in mid gear and set any drifting device into working position for drifting.
If you do not have a drifting feature, simply try mid gear drifting.

Important is to have very light oil on the grease and oilers around the main oiling units. We in Germany use no atomisers, to mix oil and steam to transport the oil to the lubrication points and surfaces, we use mechanical oil feeders and pumps, which pressed the oil direct to the lubbrication points, so the thick oil for hot surfaces was chanced to a light, liquid oil and the feed lines were cleared and filled with light oil and the feeders were adjusted to maximum delivery.
Now the engine could be towed easily.

The maximum speed was 30 km per hour, because of safety properties and just to ensure good lubrication and avoidance of hot cylinder running surfaces by the piston movement friction.
But... the are enough stories, the with that process many steames were towed much faster than 30 km/h....

So in Germany most steamers were towed with "grease steam", but there are enough stories, were the footplate staff raised the pressure during the ride a little higher and started pushing the diesel loco, instead of being towed. :D
 #709952  by pjb
 
The manufacturer had a deliveryman on board locos responsible for maintaining
lubrication, and otherwise seeing things went well. As far as I know the snifter
valves were opened and cylinders lubricated, and valves were disconnected. They
were also filled with oil. Some locos worked their way with delivery agent on
board (or a traveling grunt from the purchasing company) paying for their
transport costs, by working them. Large groups of locos were accompanied by both
purchasing and manufacturers delivery men on B&O, SP, Seaboard, B&M, and I would
guess others but they are the only specific ones I know about. The more common the
loco, and the more needy the transit carrier (e.g.ERIE) the more likely the locos
worked their passage. Another reason the ERIE, for example, was used is that they
treated the messengers well and did not act like they were crap, per Mr. G. C. Tyler who
worked for Schenectady ( ALCO). It also had clearances that some carriers
could not provide to all locos

Finding a place to eat, and if need be, clean up and sleep during the layover
at a DP, especially if it was a long period, - required that you could be noted on the carrier's
call board with notationss as to your location and connection to the locomotives in
transit .
Some places, the railroad's crew might show some compassionate
courtesy, but no one else at a division point could be bothered to give you the time of
day, much less extend any other courtesy.
Not only that if several locos were being delivered , they would be
noted to get them out of the way on the next available space in a drag freight. If no
one in the place was dependable to alert you - then you spent your time in the cab,
or went to the YMCA after hiring a call boy to watch the locos , and then come,
or otherwise alert you, as to what was up.
Small stuff, but men who were left behind or had to spend long hours in loco cabs
unecessarily , influenced the carriers used. The Wabash, also had a reputation for
decent treatment of loco messengers. In early times driving rods were sometimes
detached from the main driving wheel on 4-4-0s , 2-6-0s. 4-6-0s, 2-8-0s and
switchers, up to 1910 or so. The pistons were blocked with wooden wedges
in oil filled cylinders, and the rods were suspended by wire from the loco.
The Stevenson links were loosed, and lubricated.
The slide valves were immobile in oiled chests. Later on the driving rods were
also taken off, if that was deemed best practice by the purchaser.
However it was boxed on tender deck rather than left to sway along with the loco.
Locos were broken in by the maker. Then they were decommissioned ( unless working
their keep) according to the purchasers instructions, and sent with some sort of
transit messenger(s).
Industrial locomotives of all kinds were moved on flat cars.
That is, they were set up and lubricated, and were ready to go when delicvered,
but didn't get there by running down anyone's mainline. Obviously, any locos that had
a gauge different from standard gauge, also had to be carried on a railcar to
wherever it left the standard gauge rail system.
Generally speaking , as locomotives grew in complexity the likelihood of
a purchasing carrier having a messenger on board along with a factory rep
was increased, because they had more appliances to attend to, and because
of the size of the investment they represented
Good-Luck, Peter Boylan