subway door controls

i have memories of times long past when conductors controlled doors standing on metal plates between 2 cars
(probably R1 thru R9 or even later)
was this not a safety issue especially on elevated lines in inclement weather? (well back then maybe there were less such issues than today)
were they able to make PA announcements? (maybe from cab before climbing outside)
what R series first had the door controls in cabs?
if older cars were mixed with later ones (as i think i recall from the IRT west side lines) could a cab control all doors on the train? or did they still open from outside?
(and today heading to FWC w/o RFW.......)

My answer is also from memory.
Let's start with the Interborough. Early doors were Amstrong, that is, the fellow between the cars moved the door on each side of him with a lever. Then center doors were added, with pneumatic door engines. By the 1940's, one would sometimes see a 137th Street five-car local with all Armstrong cars, necessitatng four doormen. In regular service, a ten-car train would have a levered car only at the ends. The crew was three men on ten cars up until the 1950's, with a guy between cars 1 and 2 and also between 9 and 10.
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The BMT Standards, if memory serves correctly, provided a position within the car. There was a center door with buttons. The conductor could leave that door open until last, controlling the train doors to left and right of him from that position.
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Inclement weather on the Independent? Only at Smith-9th! The rest of the system was underground. Hence, you had the door positions with one foot on each car. There was no public address system.
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When the R-15s arrived on the Flushing Line, the conductors worked the doors from the cabs, moving the short distance between cars for the alternate side loading.
The system I found interesting is in Munich: The operator has the door controls on a cord. He steps out of the cab onto the platform to observe loading before closing the passenger doors, stepping into the cab, closing his door and leaving. It was more swift than it seems in print.

You are forgetting the Fulton and Rockaway lines. They are above ground in Queens.

Thanks bellstbarn, very interesting!

Crabman1130 wrote:You are forgetting the Fulton and Rockaway lines. They are above ground in Queens.

The fulton El is convered BMT. The rockaway Line is convered LIRR. IND service to Lefferts only began in April of 1956. By that time, the TA had begun to order cars with CR controls in the cab (the frist R16s had come the previous year). Smith/9th and 4th ave are the only IND built above ground stations (Mott ave was built after unification by the TA), and that was only becuase they didn't want to deal with a tunnel under the Gowanus Canal, and it was easyer to acces park slop then the nessiary grade from a tunnel would have allowed. I should also point out that early on the rockaway trains were under a distict rockaway division. Crews would change at Eucild, where the IND T/O and C/R would get off, and a new crew would take over.

Thanks for the correction. Until 1954, the Independent counted three outdoor stations: World's Fair, Smith-9th, and Fourth Avenue. Again relying on memory, during World War II some IRT trains on elevated structures had paint over the interior incandescent bulbs to reduce visibility to invading aircraft. On the Independent, however, the system had to worry only about the section over the Gowanus Canal. Therefore, southbound at Carroll St., Dad pointed to a special Air Raid signal, blocking trains from entering the elevated portion during such an alarm.
Joe McMahon

Correct. I remember the conductor going between the cars to operate the doors. You slid the door between the cars open, and removed the chains on one side, the side of the platform, and stood with one foot on each car. It was also used, by the way, for those that had too much to drink, or ate the wrong thing, to go between the cars, and toss their cookies. That one I remember really well since I, at least once, had to avail myself of those facilities. Remember, in those days drinking age was 18, and that made your draft card a valuable piece of paper. No one burned their draft card in those days.

Don't forget the KK, later K, that ran from 57 St down 6th Ave, through the Christie St. loop, then across the Willie B and out to 168 St. Jamaica via Broadway Brooklyn, Fulton St. and Jamaica Ave. R1-9's (even the museum cars saw some service there) and out in the open all seasons. I really worried about the conductors in icy/snowy conditions.

Haven't thought about this for years, but I believe the J was also R1-9 during that time (the 1970's).

I agree that form of between cars operation was very unsafe. I'm surprised it continued for the life of the R-1 thru R-9 cars. (Don't know if the R-10's were the same) Does anyone know if any conductors ever fell between the cars? I sure hope not. I'm amazed the union didn't demand a stop to that type of operation and a retrofit of door controls into the cabs.

Head-end View wrote:I agree that form of between cars operation was very unsafe. I'm surprised it continued for the life of the R-1 thru R-9 cars. (Don't know if the R-10's were the same) Does anyone know if any conductors ever fell between the cars? I sure hope not. I'm amazed the union didn't demand a stop to that type of operation and a retrofit of door controls into the cabs.

To fill in the blank on your post, the R-10's also had the conductor limbing between the cars on the outside. the last of those cars were retired from revenue service in September, 1989, The R-11/34's has the conductor owork on the outside, but they were retired in the 1970's. The R12/14's had that design also, and they were retired in the early '80's.