SLE Central Corridor New London-Norwich and Extension to Westerly, RI

My stepdaughter is a engineer for the city of Northampton, MA and mentioned sometime ago that she has been to conferences where this Amtrak issue has been discussed..
She recently gave me a link for reference since I belong to some train groups..

http://news.westernmassedc.com/entity/c ... rthampton/

Rich

Certainly all the negative points have great validity. The population centers served would include, Willimantic (pop 16000), UConn Storrs (pop 16000), Norwich (pop 37,000) and Uncasville/Mohegan Sun which is the second largest casino in the US with over $2 billion in annual revenue and thousands of visits each day.

Here is a little info regarding Mohegan Sun Massachusetts from Wikipedia.com

Plans for Mohegan Sun, Massachusetts

On August 2, 2007, the Mohegan Tribal Gaming Authority purchased 150 acres (61 ha) of land in the town of Palmer, Massachusetts, a town in eastern Hampden County, with about 12,000 residents. The land is directly off of exit 8 of the Massachusetts Turnpike. At the present time, they have plans to build a retail center. It is unknown if a casino or any type of gaming will occur or be allowed to occur.[12] A month later on September 17, 2007, Massachusetts Governor Deval Patrick unveiled a proposal to license three full-scale casinos in the state in a bidding process. The locations would be in the western, southeastern, and Boston area of the state.[13] Both the Massachusetts House of Representatives and Senate have passed legislation to allow casinos in the state, but governor Patrick has refused to sign the legislation due to his objections to allowing slot machines at race tracks. Prospects for legalizing casinos in the state appear to be on hold until the next legislative session begins in January 2011; however, gaming issues may still be discussed later this year.

If we can all applaud an Amtrak service between Essex Jct and St. Albans that carries two to five people per day, maybe we can find room for some service between Brattleboro and New London, I bet the passenger counts would be higher!

The population along the New London - Brattleboro route of the NEC do not even come close to the population between New Haven and Brattleboro via Hartford and Springfield. Springfield alone has more than Norwich, Willimantic, Storrs and Amherst. I doubt if even a through bus route between New London and Brattleboro would come close to being worth while.
Shuttle bus service is available out of Amherst and would provide for connections at either Northampton or Springfield.
I need to remind all of you that the State of Vermont pays the bills for operation of passenger service on this route and thus they should have the best service possible and that will be by the historic route through Springfield and not through Palmer which requires a back up move and extra miles as well as less revenue for the train.
If it is so important to have service between New London and Amherst or Brattleboro then the states or locals should come up with enough money to support it and I doubt very much if this will ever happen.
Noel Weaver

Brattleboro, Vt. would connect to New London via Norwich, Storrs

New London - It's only an idea, at this point. And a rather grandiose one at that. But that doesn't mean it can't happen.

About 65 people met at Union Station Tuesday night to hear from those north of the city who are interested in creating passenger rail service and expanded freight train service from New London to Brattleboro, Vt.
No official studies have been done to see if the idea is feasible, and there's no funding, but a core group of enthusiasts believes that New London's deep water port and the more than 60,000 students who attend colleges along the proposed route create a need.
"It's visionary planning,'' said Barbara Timken, co-owner of New London's Union Station. "It's exciting to think we are at the beginning of something.''
As ferries in the harbor sailed by the windows of the train station, and speakers were silenced by the roar of the Providence-Worcester train passing through, members of the Central Corridor Rail Project pitched their idea.
Trains would travel from New London, on tracks that already exist, with stops in Norwich, Mansfield/Storrs, Palmer, Mass., Amherst, Miller Falls and Brattleboro, and continue on to Canada. Freight rail would also be expanded.
The train would run by the Mohegan Sun Casino and stop within a mile of a proposed casino in Palmer.
"As a concept, it's developing,'' Jonathan Tucker, town planner in Amherst, said after the 90-minute meeting. "The next step is to raise preliminary funds to do some studies.''
Details, such as how many trains would run and the cost of a ticket, would have to be worked out, he said.
We're still gathering information,'' he said. "Right now we're trying to show people what the potential is."
Representatives of the Central Corridor Rail Project, which began about 18 months ago in Palmer and originally was called the Palmer Railroad Coalition, said the project includes a 110-mile line that would run past 13 colleges and universities. Tracks would have to be upgraded to accommodate passenger trains and increased freight train capacity.
Those who attended the meeting, which was hosted by City Center District, included several city officials, state representatives, business leaders and environmental enthusiasts.
[u][b]Also speaking to the group was George Betke of Farmrail, a company that has retrofitted passenger trains built in the 1950s, and Charles Hunter of RailAmerica, a company that owns 40 short-line and regional railroads in 27 states and Canada and more than 7,500 miles of tracks.[/b][/u]
The group is looking for a coordinated effort from people in all three states and encouraged everyone at the meeting to get on mailing lists, call their state and federal representatives and promote the idea.



[email protected]

The idea still lives on

Brattleboro Reformer wrote: By CHRIS GAROFOLO / Reformer Staff

Saturday April 23, 2011

BRATTLEBORO -- A Connecticut mayor is seeking support for a proposal to upgrade more than 100 miles of passenger rail between New London, Conn., and southern Vermont.

Despite some concerns from the Southeastern Connecticut Council of Governments, Mayor Martin Olsen of New London is advocating for improvements to 110 miles of the Central Corridor Rail Line to use existing freight tracks for passenger trains into Brattleboro.

http://www.reformer.com/localnews/ci_17912585

Ok, I just realized something here...
this concerns the NECR tracks,...
but this is the PROVIDENCE & WORCESTER thread!
This should either be in the NE Railfan forum OR the NECR forum (if there is one.)
However, I think a better idea would be service from New London to Worcester over the P&W.

I don't think we have an NECR forum, so I'll move it to the New England forum.

MEC407 wrote:I don't think we have an NECR forum, so I'll move it to the New England forum.

Cool beans. Thanks.

Personally, I'm cautiously optimistic. I had a chance to talk with two of the project's leaders (Todd O'Donnell, manager of NL Union Station, and Charles Hunter, NECR/RailAmerica) after one of the public meetings a month back. A few points I picked up:

NECR's interest here is track upgrades. They got federal money a couple years ago to upload their Vermont tracks from 263k to 286k-pound carloads; cost was 70 million for 170 miles. They want to (with a combination of their money and federal matching) upgrade the 110 miles from the MA/VT border to New London, because a lot of their freight goes through New London's port.

If they get the track upgraded, then it would cost pocket change to have 79mph passenger speeds. So, it's entirely conceivable that in a few years there will be a passenger-ready corridor on a RR that is favorable to passenger service. Mr. Hunter said the corridor could probably run one to two trains each direction daily without disrupting freight.

This could, conceivably, be a private-run service. NECR is interested in running the trains, with mostly local funding. They're not averse to handing it off to CDOT / MBTA if the states want it later, but if the state commuter agencies aren't interested then that's not an end-all.

Through one of its subsidiaries, RailAmerica (which owns NECR) could supply refurbished (with brand-new interior) Budd RDCs for about a million each. No need to run ten-million-dollar loco-hauled consists if one or two RDCs are sufficient. Consider that all you need is a sidewalk platform, with a wooden ramp for ADA (and you already have platforms at New London, Willimantic, Amherst, and Brattleboro), and it's surprisingly cheap.

The Day (New London paper) has run a couple of articles recently, plus a favorable editorial.

Map, made by me

On the one hand, it's pretty low-demand service I can't really see happening. On the other hand, NECR seems like a really smart outfit that sees a future in lowering the barriers to upgrading its track for passenger service. It's not too far-fetched to see a day after X many years of gas prices that'll never go down to say, "Hey, this looks like a pretty easy project all things considered...let's give it a trial." And do a much more cut-rate/minimalist service than some of the near-megaprojects requiring truckloads of Fed money. They do an excellent job maintaining that track. Getting it to 79 MPH with a reliable signal system is pretty small potatoes compared to most freight-only mains in the region, and they've been very good neighbors to the Vermonter. It's a more realistic prospect than the fantasy Housatonic keeps proposing for Danbury-Pittsfield service on its horrible track.

One thing that might help as an interim step is if there were some sort of Boston-Vermont service via Worcester/Palmer on the B&A and the current Vermonter NECR route through Amherst. Maybe moreso if service on the Vermonter were reinstated back to Montreal, because that would really crest the demand. Back when the Montrealer was still running it a semi-curious gap in the Amtrak map that there was never a modern Boston-Montreal route on all that passenger-rated track. You have to start with a manageable regular-speed service before even thinking about that pie-in-sky BOS-MTL HSR proposal on the NH Main. This NECR track is already used multiple times a day for passengers and would be the easiest leg of the main to upgrade outside of the current Vermonter project. Start off with some very limited, low-risk trial service, and if that Boston-VT/MTL connection gets any half-decent patronage then it becomes a much more academic step to take the CT leg up to 79 MPH and increase passenger utilization on the whole main.

Regardless, NECR's being smart about seeding the idea years in advance. It's all about lowering the threshold enough to get someone to bite, so no harm in a little proactive light wooing.

Thanks for the recent intresting posts on this issue. You should just be prepared for a cascade of pontifications from the rr.net resident experts about the folly of any opinions other than their own.

F-line to Dudley via Park wrote:On the one hand, it's pretty low-demand service I can't really see happening. On the other hand, NECR seems like a really smart outfit that sees a future in lowering the barriers to upgrading its track for passenger service. It's not too far-fetched to see a day after X many years of gas prices that'll never go down to say, "Hey, this looks like a pretty easy project all things considered...let's give it a trial." And do a much more cut-rate/minimalist service than some of the near-megaprojects requiring truckloads of Fed money. They do an excellent job maintaining that track. Getting it to 79 MPH with a reliable signal system is pretty small potatoes compared to most freight-only mains in the region, and they've been very good neighbors to the Vermonter. It's a more realistic prospect than the fantasy Housatonic keeps proposing for Danbury-Pittsfield service on its horrible track.

One thing that might help as an interim step is if there were some sort of Boston-Vermont service via Worcester/Palmer on the B&A and the current Vermonter NECR route through Amherst. Maybe moreso if service on the Vermonter were reinstated back to Montreal, because that would really crest the demand. Back when the Montrealer was still running it a semi-curious gap in the Amtrak map that there was never a modern Boston-Montreal route on all that passenger-rated track. You have to start with a manageable regular-speed service before even thinking about that pie-in-sky BOS-MTL HSR proposal on the NH Main. This NECR track is already used multiple times a day for passengers and would be the easiest leg of the main to upgrade outside of the current Vermonter project. Start off with some very limited, low-risk trial service, and if that Boston-VT/MTL connection gets any half-decent patronage then it becomes a much more academic step to take the CT leg up to 79 MPH and increase passenger utilization on the whole main.

Regardless, NECR's being smart about seeding the idea years in advance. It's all about lowering the threshold enough to get someone to bite, so no harm in a little proactive light wooing.

With Pan am becoming more passenger friendly by the day its another viable east west to Boston route.

I agree that with ever increasing fuel prices anything is possible and Rail America is forward thinking to be on the top of the list

I think it was me that stuck this in P&W when I was setting that up and searching "Worcester". Anyway, I don't remember my thinking on this proposal back then; I think I was more in favor of service to Worcester from New London, yet, am now more favorably inclined after reading the last few posts. Some of these old services were run up to A-Day with Budd service, and there are those more knowledgable on that. I'll have to do more research.

My question is, is there room for BOTH services (WOR-NL and NL-VT)? I would personally rather see WOR-NL service as I live in Norwich along the P&W, but that's just me.

Cosmo wrote:I would personally rather see WOR-NL service as I live in Norwich along the P&W, but that's just me.

Personal preference aside, this just makes much more sense, as it would be easy to connect with MBTA service at Worcester and thus extend the Boston commuter zone to encompass Putnam, Plainfield, and even Norwich (admittedly a long haul, but for those with flexible work schedules or who do not report to the same office every day, a real possibility). By subsidizing such a service, the State of Connecticut would do more to encourage the economic viability of Eastern Connecticut than most of the other things it spends money on.

Perhaps better yet, what physical impediments stand in the way of extending MBTA service west of Franklin/Forge Park to Putnam (or more logically, to a "park & ride" facility adjacent to 395 in the Putnam area)?

While there's nothing wrong with New England Central's operators fishing around for government "investment" in its route (i.e., providing a daily passenger train might be a small price to pay if you could get the government to effectively subsidize the freight service by paying for tie programs, bridge upgrades, etc.), Cosmo's comment underscores the fact that there are other routes that might actually foster economic growth if upgraded with taxpayer money for commuters, as opposed to simply providing a means to an occasional vacation in Montreal for a comparative handful of folks.