SEPTA train bathrooms

I only had the opportunity to use a Silverliner restroom once, and I declined. It was about 1983 and I was returning from Center City with my dad and a group of other kids/dads after the Thanksgiving Day parade. I was about five, and I figured I could hold it, rather than deal with the situation in that restroom. I remember it quite vividly.

lefty wrote:As I understand it the length of the rail line can bring about a FRA mandate to have lavatories on the train. Septa's regional lines are just shy of those numbers.

I believe the magic number is 100 miles, but I could be wrong.

*edit - I was successful in holding, in case anyone wonders.

Well, apparently most other commuter railroads find the benefit worth the cost. There are certainly some rides on SEPTA that are long enough to warrant this most basic "amenity." Instead we'll get fancy video screens in the new Silverliners. One would think that onboard restrooms would also be a benefit to train crews as well, who have to work on them all day.

Another perspective, in my opinion, is that in order to attract (and keep!) new passengers, including occasional or off-peak users you have to provide some level of service that is more attractive than driving when all factors are considered.

As a frequent user of off peak and weekend trains, I have seen a lot of fellow passengers who were excited to use the train to visit center city but when they are making all local stops to Paoli, Woodbourne, Doylestown or wherever, they become so uncomfortable because of the lack of restrooms that their attitude quickly changes to "never again!" Indeed, I even have a hard time convincing friends and family to use trains off peak for the lack of comfort and convenience the trains provide.

It just doens't seem to be quality customer service when our NJ and NY Neighbors all provide restrooms on their trains. The industry standard is to provide a restroom. Does that mean we should be satisfied with sub-standard equipment?

You also have to consider situations where a power failure or mechanical breakdown leaves the train stranded.

One time after a railroad meltdown, Jere Downs was able to get a passenger to talk about her experience on the record. Her train was stopped somewhere south of Jenkintown for almost 90 minutes, and she had to urinate into a paper cup with other passengers holding up coats for privacy. The Inquirer spiked the story.

Matthew Mitchell wrote:One time after a railroad meltdown, Jere Downs was able to get a passenger to talk about her experience on the record. Her train was stopped somewhere south of Jenkintown for almost 90 minutes, and she had to urinate into a paper cup with other passengers holding up coats for privacy.

IIRC Jere was very pregnant at the time - another consideration.(*) Plus if senior citizens are riding on off-peak locals, I can cite my parents' experiences while dealing with BPH and its female counterparts as being pretty unpleasant.

The Inquirer spiked the story.

Slightly OT but I had several discussions with Jere during which I provided a long list of potential targets for a possible investigation. She was going to ride around with me and get first-hand info. Then a couple of days later she called to say that her editor ordered her to drop the story immediately. No reason, no explanation, nothing - just don't do anything to offend SEPTA.

(*) Regardless of the views of insurance companies and some employers including one my wife worked for, pregnancy is NOT a disease. None of us would be here if it weren't for someone getting pregnant, right?

I don't know if the current schedule has any such runs right now, but over the years, there have been R5 runs that go from Doylestown all the way to Thorndale, with a return trip all the way back to Doylestown on the same set of cars after a layover. The total round trip is about 5 hours. I have always wanted to ride both ways, with no stopovers anywhere in between. Since food and drinks are allowed on the train, I could just bring something along to eat for lunch. Or I could eat during the layover at Thorndale.

But only recently, it occurred to me that this is an awfully long trip to take with no bathroom opportunity. I don't know what's out there at Thorndale; if there's enough time and a McDonald's or similar restaurant or a library within walking distance, I could probably hold everything in until then. At least I know a couple of places near the Doylestown station that I could drive to in a hurry to use the restroom. I've been to the main Bucks County public library many times over the years, and the restroom there is decent.

Ironically, most libraries have decent restrooms, but I'm not too thrilled with the one for my gender in the Free Library of Philadelphia main library on Logan Square. One time when I knew I'd have to use the restroom before getting back on the train at Suburban Station, I decided to try to find a public restroom elsewhere on the way to the train. I've long known that major hotels often have decent public restrooms off the lobby, for the use of visitors to conference and banquet facilities and restaurants. (This was also mentioned in Philadelphia Jennifer Weiner's first novel, "Good in Bed", although I already knew this by then.) I tried the two big hotels I passed, the Four Seasons and Embassy (round building). In the Four Seasons' 1st floor restroom, I saw a washroom attendant, probably expecting a monetary contribution, so I ducked out and headed to the other place. At the Embassy, the 1st floor restrooms are shared with the TGI Friday's restaurant, and they're kept locked, with patrons expected to get a key from the restaurant host/hostess. So I had to pass that one up, too, in case there was a "Restrooms for customers only" policy.

At Suburban Station, desperate, and with only four minutes remaining until one of my rare chances to take a Bombardier express home (not the trip I took last Wednesday, but it was also on a Wednesday the 25th), I located the restroom there, expecting somewhat of a dump, maybe even worse than the one at the library. But I was pleasantly surprised at how good a condition it was in, and I think I've even used it since.

JeffK wrote: (*) Regardless of the views of insurance companies and some employers including one my wife worked for, pregnancy is NOT a disease.

Does that mean it's an accident?

Wallyhorse, I'd call the homeless issue an excuse rather than a reason. Homelessness is not unique to SEPTA. In fact I feel homeless people with no restrooms would make more of a mess than homeless who have restrooms to use.

One of the reasons that all rail lines end at Suburban Station is to skirt the rule mandating toilet facilities on board Septa trains. If the run is continous toilets are required due to the overall length (e.g. Doylestown to Downingtown) of travel between end points. By terminating at Suburban, changing destination signs, and continuing on the rule is circumvented.

I don't know what you're talking about -- the bathrooms at Suburban are disgusting. Usually there's a homeless guy in there smoking which makes it even worse.

At night the Mariott is always open and has non-attended bathrooms on the ground floor. During the day you can just enter an office building as a guest -- I use the Aramark tower or Two Penn (low-rise white building across from City Hall).

septadude wrote:I don't know what you're talking about -- the bathrooms at Suburban are disgusting. Usually there's a homeless guy in there smoking which makes it even worse.

At night the Mariott is always open and has non-attended bathrooms on the ground floor.

I agree about Suburban...but it's tolerable, I guess. If you gotta go, you gotta go!

Mariott is always open (that's the one near 13th and Market, right?). Of course, beware of the wary security person. I used to use it without fail until I was stopped and turned out. Meh.

The Mariott is more like 12th and Mkt. I'd be surprised if the Courtyard (the Mariott entrance across from City Hall with a valet) has a restroom in the lobby.

septadude wrote:The Mariott is more like 12th and Mkt. I'd be surprised if the Courtyard (the Mariott entrance across from City Hall with a valet) has a restroom in the lobby.

Especially since as I recall the Courtyard is actually the former City Hall Annex building.

As for the lack of restrooms on SEPTA, they probably can get away with it because of the way they operate their lines, however, I would think if not because of the homeless, the lack of restrooms on the trans is because of concerns about their being havens for illegal drug use and the like, especially given some of the neighborhoods some of the regional rail lines run through.

septadude wrote:I don't know what you're talking about -- the bathrooms at Suburban are disgusting. Usually there's a homeless guy in there smoking which makes it even worse.

At night the Mariott is always open and has non-attended bathrooms on the ground floor. During the day you can just enter an office building as a guest -- I use the Aramark tower or Two Penn (low-rise white building across from City Hall).

Maybe we're different genders and only see the one for our gender. I have never seen a homeless guy in the bathroom I've used at Suburban. I've never even seen a guy who has a place to go home to in that bathroom!

I've successfully used a public women's room at both the Marriott and the Loew's across Market Street from it while on the way to Market East to catch a train. I think I did have to resort to some sneakery once at the Marriott. There's a sign about the restrooms being just for patrons, and I recall having made some eye contact with the wrong employee that time. Still, I did manage to get to the restroom.

septadude wrote:I don't know what you're talking about -- the bathrooms at Suburban are disgusting. Usually there's a homeless guy in there smoking which makes it even worse.

I used them Friday night -- they were fine.

Wallyhorse wrote:As for the lack of restrooms on SEPTA, they probably can get away with it because of the way they operate their lines, however, I would think if not because of the homeless, the lack of restrooms on the trans is because of concerns about their being havens for illegal drug use and the like, especially given some of the neighborhoods some of the regional rail lines run through.

It's a ridiculous argument. Plenty of places in NJ are similar and we have restrooms. Lots of us that use them are NOT criminals. We have the occasional smoker, occasional fare-beater, etc. Call the crew and they turn them out. End of story.