SEPTA overcrowding on Regional Rail

25Hz wrote:West trenton & trenton line crowding would be alleviated by a newtown line re-activation.

And you and I are both aware that (unfortunately) that is not on the radar of anybody in a position to reactivate Newtown.

It's a choice. I don't know what's not in a state of good repair, but it seems like NPT and new station facilities took precedence over restoring network coverage.

25Hz wrote:

Clearfield wrote:

bikentransit wrote:I think a bunch of guys called PA-TEC predicted this several years ago, and recommended that the region invest in opening dormant lines to alleviate congestion at stations that were at capacity 5 years ago. Looks like that fell on deaf ears.

No, deaf dollars.............There wasn't enough money to keep the existing lines in a state of good repair, let alone reopening dormant lines.

But you already knew that.

West trenton & trenton line crowding would be alleviated by a newtown line re-activation.

Ah, but the rolling stock to serve Newtown would have to come from somewhere, likely pulled off those same West Trenton and Trenton trains. And now we're right back where we started, and actually in even worse shape if Newtown is at all successful.

If Newtown was reactivated, then new rolling stock would be purchased.

jackintosh11 wrote:If Newtown was reactivated, then new rolling stock would be purchased.

The reactivation of Newtown would be a package of capital costs and ongoing operating and maintenance costs.

The capital costs would include gliding stock. In this case, maglev trains which would be the common rail vehicles of the 22nd century.

jackintosh11 wrote:If Newtown was reactivated, then new rolling stock would be purchased.

Or we could reduce the complexity of this solution by skipping Newtown and just buying new rolling stock. Which SEPTA is already committed to doing.

CComMack wrote:

jackintosh11 wrote:If Newtown was reactivated, then new rolling stock would be purchased.

Or we could reduce the complexity of this solution by skipping Newtown and just buying new rolling stock. Which SEPTA is already committed to doing.

hould be buying NJT bilevels not debating which ones to buy. The question is whether they plan to buy enough. you're right, rolling stock first, then infrastructure expansion if that isn't enough.

Ah yes...use 2-2 multi-levels to increase seating to the level of 3-2 single levels.

SEPTA should buy NJT's cast-off Arrow IIIs. There's a lot of parts commonality and those cars are fairly high density.

Jersey_Mike wrote:Ah yes...use 2-2 multi-levels to increase seating to the level of 3-2 single levels.

SEPTA should buy NJT's cast-off Arrow IIIs. There's a lot of parts commonality and those cars are fairly high density.

Wouldn't they only be work on the Pennsy side of the phase break cause they lack the transformers the SLIVs have?

ekt8750 wrote:Wouldn't they only be work on the Pennsy side of the phase break cause they lack the transformers the SLIVs have?

The Silverliner IVs use the same transformer. The Pennsylvania and Reading systems use the same frequency and voltage.

Jersey_Mike wrote:SEPTA should buy NJT's cast-off Arrow IIIs. There's a lot of parts commonality and those cars are fairly high density.

SEPTA would have more of the same maintenance headaches the SLIV's create. Procuring more obsolete and breakdown prone equipment isn't necessarily the answer at any price.

Clearfield wrote:

Jersey_Mike wrote:SEPTA should buy NJT's cast-off Arrow IIIs. There's a lot of parts commonality and those cars are fairly high density.

SEPTA would have more of the same maintenance headaches the SLIV's create. Procuring more obsolete and breakdown prone equipment isn't necessarily the answer at any price.

AIIIs were rebuilt with AC traction. Even if you gave them completely new propulsion groups the entire fleet of B-IVs was re-equipped for $11 million.

NJT is dropping the AIIIs because they hate MUs...not because the AIIIs are actually bad.

Jersey_Mike wrote:AIIIs were rebuilt with AC traction. Even if you gave them completely new propulsion groups the entire fleet of B-IVs was re-equipped for $11 million.

NJT is dropping the AIIIs because they hate MUs...not because the AIIIs are actually bad.

With the average distance between stations much higher than SEPTA's, Push Pulls make more sense for NJT. SEPTA has stations on the Paoli line where you can literally see the next station from the one you're at. Like the Market Frankford line.

Septa has loads of stations like that, multi-levels won't be too bad on certain lines, but they need to have disc brakes, which the current push pulls don't, they also need to run them as express trains serving stations where all the cars will actually fit at the station!!! Too much to ask for yes most definitely.

As for seeing the next station, CHE stenton and Sedgwick, West Trenton line you can see from Philmont to Noble, Forest Hills and Somerton, Lansdale line North Wales to Lansdale, Oreland to North Hills, and so forth, comparisons to NJT are somewhat biased because Septa serves one city and the surrounding area, NJT serves an entire state (albeit a small state)

Hoboken div lines are more similar to SEPTA than the Newark div. Victorian steam era station layout, attempting to get as many towns & villages as possible along the route.

If Newtown was revived, you'd simply use the additional new rolling stock.

Quakertown would be different, as it is a lot farther from landsdale than fox chase to Newtown. Landsdale is all ready a pretty long ride from 30th.

To alleviate crowding, they need to add more trains while keeping current trains as-is. This would not only spread the load, but also act as a kind of delay timer for the parking etc, as one moderately patronised train pulls in, it may have fewer autos & taxis departing onto the local roads, vs a packed SRO train that dumps 300 people out of 3 cars.

- Andy