Secaucus Transfer as an Amtrak stop

Been awhile since I posted. I am now out of NJ but still come up to visit fam and friends. I have not been through Secaucus Transfer in a while. I did remember years ago there was talk about Amtrak stopping there since there is so much unused space and wondered if anything moved forward from that. Last I remembered there is/was a pop up bar and a DD. Maybe a news stand? I mean my whole thing is I believe it should be a stop especially if you are transferring to a stop in outlying NJ someplace. There has to be room for baggage handling someplace in there. As an ex: I come from Florida on the Star/Meteor and I live in Garfield. I would think it would be awesome to get off in Secaucus and grab a Bergen County train to Garfield instead of transferring to SJ/ hoping for a ride from Newark or even back tracking from NYC. Thoughts???

Scheduling, scheduling, scheduling.

As you know, Secaucus Junction is mainly a transfer station from the NEC-traversing stations to Hoboken-exclusive trains heading up-state. In pre-pandemic times, this was busy with NJ Transit traffic.

But can Amtrak stop there? It would require a study... but I doubt you'll find enough traffic (back then and now) to justify even a short drop-off stop like Aberdeen, MD. I can't see it.

While backtracking from Penn or doing a double transfer by getting off in Newark (even though in the right direction) would certainly stink I can't imagine there would be enough traffic to justify the potential clogging of the railroad by adding a slow stop there. Maybe as a whistle/flag stop? Capacity might be there once the loop is built.

Leave Secaucus for NJT. Have passengers transfer from Amtrak to one of probably hundreds of NJT trains which run between Newark and Secaucus (going to Penn of course). An extra stop for that short of a distance away from Newark would add more time to already long Amtrak services.

Why do Amtrak Long Distance and Acela Trains stop at Newark in the first place? Does this have to do with a Pennsylvania Railroad tradition?

Mr. Pennsy, the Newark stop is of course a PRR tradition. It was also a transfer point to the H&M (PRR owned; and not the Swedish apparel retailer) complete with baggage service and at Hudson Terminal, an interline ticket office, sometimes referred to as a "coupon station".

Pensyfan19 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 1:30 pm Why do Amtrak Long Distance and Acela Trains stop at Newark in the first place? Does this have to do with a Pennsylvania Railroad tradition?

Metropark is not a serious alternative. About 2.2 million people live in the three counties just around Newark. They cover only 276 square miles.

Traditionally, Lower Manhattan was where the action was as far as business transactions were concerned. After World War II business activity moved more and more towards Midtown, where the restaurants and hotels were, and for some decades Lower Manhattan was effectively closed from 5 pm Friday till 8 am Monday and there was little reason for out-of-town visitors to go there. More recently, my understanding is that hotels, restaurants, and apartments have made Lower Manhattan more of a destination than it has ever been in my experience. A Newark stop on Amtrak is now more necessary than ever. As kitchin points out above, Metropark doesn't cut it as a substitute for Newark -- and you don't block two tracks by crossing over to stop there.

That would be nice if, in the very long term, Secaucus Jct was an Amtrak stop. The problem right now is it’s not built up enough to have SEC as an Amtrak station. There aren’t many office buildings on the grounds of SEC-not like Metropark or NWK Penn. Plus Amtrak has to get the ball rolling on Gateway, especially those brand new tunnels underneath the river and more of a four travel right of way between NYP-NWK. So I probably wouldn’t count on Amtrak stopping at SEC for a very long time.

Even more of the 9-5 Monday to Friday jobs relocated from Lower to Upper Manhattan following 9-11. Amtrak trains will always serve NWK Penn. It’s one of the main transit hubs in North Jersey and surrounded by tons of commercial development. Yes Lower Manhattan may be a quick subway ride to NY Penn Station and many people who are traveling from Lower Manhattan to NYC Penn Station get between the two in a little more than half the time that it does to travel WTC-NWK.

Mr. Buff, even if someday (I don't think it ever will) workers return to offices in sufficient number for developers to consider new "parks", "plazas", "plexes", whatever, I doubt if the vicinity of the Secaucus station would be high on the list. Somehow, building a "High Rise" (10 stories or more) in the marshes (oh whoops, better get "politically correct"; wetlands) could be problematic.

I'm not an architect; I just count up the beans they want to spend. But the thought of having to dig fir 100ft deep caissons for any such structure; and how about insuring the building built on anything less than Manhattan bedrock reflecting in the rents that need be charged to "make book", represents "think twice moments" for the developers.

I think Surfside has proven to be a "wake up call".

The real elephant in the room is ticketing. If it was integrated and holistic, fine. But ticketing here is not as civilised as to allow transfers so seamless, so people don't bother. Secaucus might make another Metropark, i.e. a kiss & ride railhead, for Bergen County etc, but I don't see it yet. Perhaps if the Meadowlands things were sorted, if more TOD was there, if a subway line got there even, or the JC Light Rail. But not right now.

That said, Newark is absolutely essential. Not just for politics (think the State of NJ would have trains not stop in their state at all, re the fast Acela? See also, Wilmington) - and not for NJ transfers as such (see ticketing integration failures above) but for Newark as a city - there is a lot of business based there still and it's still growing in that regard, and gentrifying in some districts (+ look at Harrison, biggest TOD/building success in the US in ratio to population!) - but also, as mentioned above, the PATH.

It's better than staying on until Penn for Lower Manhattan. And as mentioned also, LM has had a renaissance. There is the Oculus, Seaport works, ferries galore, 9/11 memorial/museum, Brookfield, it goes on and on - and lots of new hotels and dining. Plus rebirth of office take-up, including many in the creative industries too.

In fact, with tunnel closures likely, I could see all Amtrak services from the south terminating there (perhaps with open PATH gates for onward travel) -

cle wrote:he real elephant in the room is ticketing. If it was integrated and holistic, fine. But ticketing here is not as civilised as to allow transfers so seamless, so people don't bother.

Amen! Through ticketing, and therefore listing of all stations on connecting commuter/regional rail routes on one planning&ticketing website, would make so many trips just a little easier and a lot easier to conceive of.

Having Amtrak's Northeast Regional stop at Secaucus Junction would be a no brainer, and a win, win for all.

First the station is no where near Metro Park, and Secaucus is much easier to reach than Newark Penn, as SEC
is right off Turnpike Exit 15X.

Further a few years after the station opened, Edison Park Fast opened a large surface lot next to the station, so the
parking issue is no longer a factor.

Lastly, NJT has stated repeatedly how expensive it is to operate SEC, having Amtrak pay a user fee would ease the burden on NJT.

Ken

Why?
NYC's Penn Station is 5 miles to it's east and Newark's Penn Station is 5 miles to its west.
Does Amtrak need to provide station services along the NEC every 5 miles?

If you answered that question with a yes, where are you going to place more stations?
Per Wiki, the NEC is 453 miles in length.
453/5 = 90.6
So, Amtrak should visit 91 stations for one every 5 miles.
Per Wiki, believe it or not, there are 108 stations.
Per Wiki, Amtrak stops at just 30 of them.
453/30 = 15.1
So, Amtrak now stops at stations every 15 miles.
Therefore, so as not to pick and choose which stations Amtrak should service, let's service all of them.

I wonder how much longer it will take Amtrak trains to run the 453 miles now?
Being conservative, let's assuming Amtrak regional trains lose a minute with every station stop, we discussing adding 78 minutes to every run, easily over an hour. Now consider if the time lost was 2 minutes per stop........

There are reasons why public transportation is divided up between different organizations across the country. National, goal to provide intercity services over national distances, State - goal to provide intercity services over medium distances within the state, City - goal to provide intracity services across minimum distances within a city. Don't mess them all up attempting to do too much doing everyone else's job.

While it would be nice for Amtrak to stop at Secaucus Jct, it's not really considered a priority from a business perspective. After Gateway project gets completed plus more development gets built at SEC-then I could see maybe Northeast Regionals and Keystones stopping at SEC. Many people living in Bergen County who are catching Amtrak at NWK are probably heading south and have transportation to get to NWK. Those who don't drive probably don't mind taking car services. In southern Bergen County, there are public buses that run to NWK Penn Station, especially from Rutherford and Lyndhurst. I am friends with a couple who live in Fair Lawn. I saw one of the members back in May and she told me that her partner had to go to Baltimore and took the Acela from NWK. He probably took a car service to get from his house in Fair Lawn to NWK Penn Station. There are people using Amtrak out of NWK who live in Bergen County who can probably deal with taking a two seat NJT train ride to NWK Penn and getting Amtrak there.

[quote=electricron post_id=1583772 time=1635600877 user_id=23592]
Why?
NYC's Penn Station is 5 miles to it's east and Newark's Penn Station is 5 miles to its west.
Does Amtrak need to provide station services along the NEC every 5 miles?

If you answered that question with a yes, where are you going to place more stations?
Per Wiki, the NEC is 453 miles in length.
453/5 = 90.6
So, Amtrak should visit 91 stations for one every 5 miles.
Per Wiki, believe it or not, there are 108 stations.
Per Wiki, Amtrak stops at just 30 of them.
453/30 = 15.1
So, Amtrak now stops at stations every 15 miles.
Therefore, so as not to pick and choose which stations Amtrak should service, let's service all of them.

I wonder how much longer it will take Amtrak trains to run the 453 miles now?
Being conservative, let's assuming Amtrak regional trains lose a minute with every station stop, we discussing adding 78 minutes to every run, easily over an hour. Now consider if the time lost was 2 minutes per stop........

There are reasons why public transportation is divided up between different organizations across the country. National, goal to provide intercity services over national distances, State - goal to provide intercity services over medium distances within the state, City - goal to provide intracity services across minimum distances within a city. Don't mess them all up attempting to do too much doing everyone else's job.
[/quote]

Does Amtrak need a station every 5 miles..??
Maybe not nationally, but ,in Secaucus on the border
of Bergen and Hudson counties one of the the demographically
and economically concentrated regions in the United States ..??
Yes...it stands to reason..Where there's money,there's patronage..