River LINE/Atlantic City connection considered

Pennsauken anti-rail NIMBYs are a strange breed. Their opposition to the Atlantic City Line was reportedly due to the hysteria stirred up by the plethora of chartered bus companies based in Pennsauken.
Their stated opposition to the River LINE was that it would kill all their children, who are too stupid to get off the track when a train is coming.

CHIP72 wrote: In a broader sense, it's a shame there aren't connections to the AC Line at ANY of the possible connection sites west of the PATCO/AC Line connection at Lindenwald (with the RiverLINE, Market-Frankford El, or SEPTA PRR north lines/Amtrak at North Philadelphia Station). I never really understood that.

There never was a good connection between the Frankford El and the Pennsy railroad, Frankfor Junction station was only a block from the El itself, but about 4 long blocks from the nearest El station.

There is a considerable grade difference between the Riveline and the Atlantic City line. Remember the railroad's elevated to get across the Delaware River. Not many folks, especially with luggage, would like to climb that many stairs, so not only would you need regular handicapped elevators, but they'd get heavy use. It wouldn't take too many trips with broken elevators to make your potential passengers abandon you. So whatever station you'd put up would need to be more substantial than just a few platforms and stairs, but as somebody already mentioned it need not be as big as the Secaucus Transfer.

gardendance wrote:It wouldn't take too many trips with broken elevators to make your potential passengers abandon you. So whatever station you'd put up would need to be more substantial than just a few platforms and stairs, but as somebody already mentioned it need not be as big as the Secaucus Transfer.

We have reached a point where we're capable of building and maintaing escalators and elevators. At least, I sure HOPE so.

how about some ramps .... not one really long one but the kind that double back... kinda like the bike ramps for the schukill river bridges to the bike path in philly and elsewhere... its not too hard to do a 5% grade at that location (ADA)

radioboy wrote: We have reached a point where we're capable of building and maintaing escalators and elevators. At least, I sure HOPE so.

So what's the record for similar elevators, for example the Atlantic City line's Pleasantville station?

This photo, taken during River LINE construction, illustrates the grade separation between the River LINE and the Atlantic City Line.

chuchubob wrote:This photo, taken during River LINE construction, illustrates the grade separation between the River LINE and the Atlantic City Line.

How would the grade difference be any different then say, getting off a bus or car and going up stairs, ramps, escalators-elevators to an elevated rapid transit station. Its not that big a deal.I believe this connection needs to be built. I dont think it would be that expensive to do and only makes sense.

Looks like plenty of space to put a decent size parking lot, as for the station itself just make it as basic as possible. Don't even put in elevators, a couple switch back ramps with slight grades. Just basic platforms with a canopy for protection.

http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&F ... &encType=1

Just need to make sure it's easily accessible from 90 and Route 130.

I wonder what would happen if this did happen, would ridership increase from Trenton instead of taking Septa into Philly, now you could just ride the Riverline to meet the ACL.

Do we know the demographics already? How many people who ride the Atlantic City line transfer via Philly for points that the Riverline could more efficiently serve them?

Or, what percentage increase of traffic on the Atlantic City, or Riverline, or both could justify what expense to put in the
connecting station?

I have to ask this dumb question, Why did they listen to the NIMBY's? The fact that there is no connection NJT look like a bunch of idiots. Plus, if you ask me, the new station would be hated for about 5-10 years, then they would advertise it, use it as a selling point, etc.

I imagine the NJT either ran out of funds for a transfer station (since we all know that major transfer stations MUST have the novel grandiosity of a people's palace a la Secaucus Junction) or they skipped the station under NIMBY pressure so that they could just build the damn River Line and finally get passenger rail running to help revitalize the Route 130 corridor. I must say, I don't mind that connections to Philly are via PATCO rather than the ACL. After all, PATCO has a much higher operating frequency than the ACL and is a much quicker way downtown than changing to the ACL and then changing to SEPTA at 30th Street Station to get to Suburban Station or Market East and changing again to any of the subway systems. As far as the connection working for people traveling between the River Line and the direction of Atlantic City, my only guess is that NJ Transit sees this commuting/travel pattern as unusual/unsustainable. What truth there is to that, I don't know for certain, but I'm guessing that Route 130 Corridor-Atlantic City commutes are few and far in between due to the distance and time involved.

Also, this is just a personal quip, but I'm not quite sure I trust NJ Transit to schedule transfers efficiently. I've had too many misses and/or asthmatastic panic runs in order to avoid a miss coming off of the NEC and onto the River Line at Trenton that I question whether or not NJ Transit in its current form could make a working connection in its own system, especially when the Atlantic City line has 1.5 - 3-hour schedule gaps.

Mirai Zikasu wrote:(since we all know that major transfer stations MUST have the novel grandiosity of a people's palace a la Secaucus Junction)

And it will be known as the "George M. Norcross III Pennsauken Transfer Station". They will even give it its own exit off of 90 right before the bridge, but no parking.

HAHAHAHA Brilliant Radioboy Brilliant!

We wrote this early in the thread. We repeat the entry here, offering NJ-ARP's take on why there is no transfer station at present.

[W]hen the political home team (Camden County) declares the River Line won't help it, and it won't do anything for it, and therefore no one should bother with a transfer, then such useful items don't ... get ... built.

Burlington County (the River Line's true champion, even more than NJ-ARP was) tried to advance the transfer concept to any and all who would listen. But the site was (and is) across the border, and Burlco's clout was limited.

For the rest of us advancing the project, that meant pursuing the River Line without a transfer to the Atlantic City Line. After all, "conventional wisdom" by others (not Burlco) decreed that "everyone" was going to Philadelphia anyway, and they could get there via Walter Rand. Who the heck would travel intrastate?

Our choice was to forgo the transfer, or give up on the project. We chose the former, in the sincere hope that we'd return to the subject matter in the future. As indeed we all have here.

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For us at NJ-ARP, if yin/yang is the way of the world, then a New Jersey locale that's incredibly pro-rail (let's say, Bayonne) must be matched by a comparable locale that's unalterably opposed to same (and we choose: Pennsauken). But things can change.